9. Microsoft Activision Blizzard Metaverse, Brooklyn Netaverse, Gamer NFT Study
In this episode, we discuss Microsoft's acquisition of Activision-Blizzard and the effect it will have on the metaverse, how Bobby Kotick and Satya Nadella talk about the metaverse, a study showing that 56% of people want to earn NFTs while playing video games, the NBA's Brooklyn Nets becoming the first professional sports team to join the metaverse, and so much more!
Episode 9 Keywords: Microsoft, Activision-Blizzard, Bobby Kotick, Satya Nadella, Interpret, in-game NFT, NBA, Brooklyn Nets, Netaverse
Transcript
Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The Metaverse and web three are bringing about the
Unknown:biggest revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the
Unknown:juice Cohen. We will be bringing you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into what it
Unknown:all means. The meta business podcast starts now.
Paul Dawalibi:From the boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta business podcast. I am
Paul Dawalibi:Paul Dawalibi. I'm joined today by my friend and co host, Jeff, the juice Cohen. For those of you
Paul Dawalibi:who are new to the meta business podcast. What we do here is we cover all the biggest and most
Paul Dawalibi:pressing, Metaverse, news and topics of the week. But we look at all of it through a business and C
Paul Dawalibi:suite lens, we dissect, we analyze the business implications of everything happening in this
Paul Dawalibi:Metaverse industry. For those of you who are new to the podcast, welcome. If you love the content,
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Paul Dawalibi:your friends tell other people about the podcast. That's how we grow this show. We also appreciate
Paul Dawalibi:all your feedback. If you guys are loving it, not loving it, whatever you think we should be doing
Paul Dawalibi:different or covering, you know, send us topics send us new send us things that you'd love to see
Paul Dawalibi:on the show guests even. And I'm sure we will, we will get to it. So, Jeff, how you doing this week?
Jeff Cohen:I'm doing great. Feels like it's a massive week. You know, last week we had the
Jeff Cohen:biggest acquisition gaming pretty much to date. And you know, Mike, Phil Spencer basically said
Jeff Cohen:hold my beer and buy, you know, 5x So, um, you know, we're gonna cover this ad nauseum, but huge
Jeff Cohen:week, so excited to talk about the Activision acquisition of course. And yeah, that's it. Yeah.
Jeff Cohen:I
Paul Dawalibi:mean, just so you guys know, you know, our sister podcast business of esports. If
Paul Dawalibi:you came from there, then you know, you know, we covered the Microsoft Activision Blizzard
Paul Dawalibi:acquisition there on our live stream slash weekly news show at length. And so if you're looking for,
Paul Dawalibi:you know, the business of gaming kind of analysis of that, definitely tune into that go check that
Paul Dawalibi:out. I want to focus this conversation because Jeff, it's a huge story, right. And just the two
Paul Dawalibi:seconds of context here. Microsoft is paying because the deal technically hasn't closed, it may
Paul Dawalibi:it may take a year to close because of antitrust sort of concerns. But Microsoft is paying
Paul Dawalibi:essentially almost $70 billion to go and acquire Activision Blizzard, one of the largest if not the
Paul Dawalibi:largest game development company in the world, makers of Call of Duty World of Warcraft,
Paul Dawalibi:Overwatch, you know, Diablo all these huge franchises. And, and I think what what I want to
Paul Dawalibi:focus on and I think the reason why, you know, we both thought this was a good idea to bring up on
Paul Dawalibi:this show, is because a lot of the discussion around the announcement both from Phil Spencer and
Paul Dawalibi:Bobbie codec and Sachin Adela, like from all sides, whether it's the CEO of Microsoft, the head
Paul Dawalibi:of gaming at Microsoft, or the head of Activision Blizzard, all of them had something to say at some
Paul Dawalibi:point about the metaverse in the context of this transaction. And so I think the first let's start
Paul Dawalibi:with sort of the buyer here, right, let's start with Microsoft, and Sachin Adela, who's the CEO of
Paul Dawalibi:Microsoft. And I'm pulling this directly from the transcript of the announcement. So this is Sachin
Paul Dawalibi:Adela, that was speaking, I guess to shareholders, investors, etc. And I'll put it on the screen.
Paul Dawalibi:It's just text. So there's not much to see if you're listening to the podcast. You're not.
Paul Dawalibi:You're not missing anything here. But I've pulled out where there's discussion around the metaverse.
Paul Dawalibi:Okay. And and let me start with the first part here where Satya Nadella says, when we think about
Paul Dawalibi:our future for our vision for what a Metaverse can be, we believe there won't be a single centralized
Paul Dawalibi:Metaverse, and there shouldn't be, we need to support many Metaverse, platforms, as well as a
Paul Dawalibi:robust ecosystem of content, commerce and applications in gaming. We see the metaverse as a
Paul Dawalibi:collection of communities and individual entities anchored in strong content franchises, accessible
Paul Dawalibi:on every device. And bringing fantastic entertainment together with new technologies,
Paul Dawalibi:communities and business models is exactly what this transaction is about. I'm curious what you
Paul Dawalibi:think just stopping there. Jeff, what you feel about that definition of the metaverse, or at
Paul Dawalibi:least that view of it.
Jeff Cohen:Can you pull it back on the screen? Sorry, just want to give context as I'm kind of
Jeff Cohen:going through it. I mean, I think it's interesting. It certainly doesn't fit with sort of
Jeff Cohen:the definition of kind of the metaverse, the capital T capital and Metaverse that we've sort of
Jeff Cohen:been espousing on this podcast but I struggle with this because I don't necessarily disagree with the
Jeff Cohen:fact that this is probably what a Metaverse will be for the very, I would even say medium term
Jeff Cohen:future. If not, you know, for quite some time, mostly because I just think that there are so many
Jeff Cohen:big tech companies and so many different entities trying to build different meta versus that it will
Jeff Cohen:be hard for us to get to one. So I do think this view of that there won't be a single central as
Jeff Cohen:Metaverse is probably very correct, at least for a significant period of time. It also is interesting
Jeff Cohen:to juxtapose this versus kind of Facebook's vision, or a metas vision of the metaverse because
Jeff Cohen:I do think that they are kind of looking at it more as we are going to own sort of the single
Jeff Cohen:centralized metaphors. So it's interesting to think about that verse. And maybe it gets back to
Jeff Cohen:what kind of Microsoft's history has been in terms of building apps, building operating systems that
Jeff Cohen:lives on other devices. And they've never tried to kind of own the entire stack. They try to own the
Jeff Cohen:application layer and the software layer and work with other kind of pieces of software to integrate
Jeff Cohen:and make people's lives easier through through software. So maybe it's not surprising because
Jeff Cohen:this has always been Satya Nadella isn't Microsoft's Mo is to kind of build these these
Jeff Cohen:open platforms, these clouds and these services for people. But I do think it's interesting to
Jeff Cohen:juxtapose versus versus Facebook and what's your kind of first initial reaction? You know,
Paul Dawalibi:there's a saying to a worm in mud to the world is mud, right? And I feel like
Paul Dawalibi:Metaverse definitions are 100% dependent on whoever's delivering that definition. Right. And,
Paul Dawalibi:and there are a lot of good reasons for this transaction. Right. There's a lot of good business
Paul Dawalibi:ideas behind it, and we cover them on business of esports ad nauseum. You know, we spent an hour on
Paul Dawalibi:the live show about it. I think, what troubles me here a little bit is, you know, we're trying to
Paul Dawalibi:conform the definition of a Metaverse to justify this acquisition in some ways, right. And so it's
Paul Dawalibi:so that it fits. And while I don't disagree, because I do agree that there won't be a single
Paul Dawalibi:centralized Metaverse in the sense that many people will build onto the metaverse on some kind
Paul Dawalibi:of common standards or infrastructure. And I do agree that that is where Microsoft plays best,
Paul Dawalibi:right? That at its heart, that's what Windows is. It's a common platform that allows other people to
Paul Dawalibi:build on top of but but where I fundamentally disagree with this definition, and where I'm
Paul Dawalibi:really bothered by it, is this sentence of where he says in and I really like Sachin Adela. I love
Paul Dawalibi:what he's done at Microsoft. I think he's truly been a visionary for the company. He has taken the
Paul Dawalibi:company to another level. And he says, But he says something here I fundamentally disagree with which
Paul Dawalibi:is in gaming. He says we see the metaverse as a collection of communities and individual
Paul Dawalibi:identities anchored in strong content franchises. And I asked the question, why does it have to be
Paul Dawalibi:anchored anchored in some content franchise? Like, why does it have to be about Call of Duty or about
Paul Dawalibi:readly? Why can't it be anchored in some general interest? Because I think that's more likely
Paul Dawalibi:what's going to happen, not a specific owned and operated IP content franchise by some mega Corp.
Paul Dawalibi:Fundamentally, I think these meta versus if you if you want to call them that will be organized
Paul Dawalibi:around interests, much more generalized interests. And, and again, it feels like a little bit too,
Paul Dawalibi:too warm in mud. The world is mud like, well, we just bought some really strong content franchises.
Paul Dawalibi:So now we have to say the metaverse is all about being anchored in strong content franchises don't
Paul Dawalibi:really well, I agree the acquisition could add a lot of technology, a lot of smart people to help
Paul Dawalibi:Microsoft build out their their vision for the metaverse. I don't think owning Call of Duty gets
Paul Dawalibi:them any one step closer to that vision.
Jeff Cohen:100% agree I mean, them owning strong content franchises is an incredible gaming
Jeff Cohen:strategy. To your point, it really is not. It's almost the antithesis of a metaphor strike. Not
Jeff Cohen:only does it is it not necessary. I would almost go as far as to say that it is it is harmful to
Jeff Cohen:having a Metaverse strategy because I don't think the metaverse should be built on any one IP or
Jeff Cohen:franchise. It almost has to be just people going living their life entertaining themselves. And I
Jeff Cohen:think if you're limiting it to one entertainment IP, it is by definition, not a Metaverse because
Jeff Cohen:it's not all encompassing. But it just gets a little bit to the point of just where we are in
Jeff Cohen:the metaverse hype cycle where it's not surprising Microsoft support big company, they're doing a
Jeff Cohen:massive acquisition. They're wanting to pitch it to their shareholders, the investment community
Jeff Cohen:and the media at large. Metaverse is a massive buzzword and I think for 99 point 99% of people
Jeff Cohen:when they think the metaverse they think gaming when they think gaming, they're now starting to
Jeff Cohen:think the metaverse so those two are almost almost a ceiling almost shouldn't be. They should
Jeff Cohen:definitely be linked. And I think the gaming is a massive on ramp to the metaverse. Um, you know,
Jeff Cohen:same way. Same way, social media was an on ramp to the internet or to the mobile internet or you can
Jeff Cohen:use that's probably not a great example. The internet was around for a long time before but
Jeff Cohen:gaming is a massive on ramp to the metaverse, but it is not the metaverse and I think people are
Jeff Cohen:using it as synonyms. And to investors. I think it's an easy way to pitch it as a story because
Jeff Cohen:there's a lot more nuance that frankly, investors aren't aware of yet or don't care about yet. But
Jeff Cohen:it is it is the way that it's being pitched now in the media and the business community, generally at
Jeff Cohen:large gaming equals Metaverse, Metaverse equals gaming.
Paul Dawalibi:But I truly believe and this analogy maybe is makes more sense to me is
Paul Dawalibi:Gaming's the engine of the metaverse, right? It powers what the metaverse fundamentally is at a at
Paul Dawalibi:a that underlying level. And this is where I think Sachin Adela is kind of a visionary because let me
Paul Dawalibi:just read the next quote out of this transcript here. He says when we first discussed the chance
Paul Dawalibi:to merge our incredible talent, extraordinary franchises or shared commitment to the very best
Paul Dawalibi:workplaces, and access to Microsoft's best resources, it gave me confidence that we would
Paul Dawalibi:have a far better chance to succeed in the increasingly competitive race for leadership. As
Paul Dawalibi:gaming through the metaverse evolves. That's Bobby's. Is that Bobby? No, yeah, sorry. That's
Paul Dawalibi:Bobby. And but I think this is a great recognition, whether it's Bobby or Sacha doesn't
Paul Dawalibi:matter, the combined entity, right? That in some ways, what really matters here is there's a race
Paul Dawalibi:for talent, right? As as, as as the metaverse evolves, even if we don't have all the questions
Paul Dawalibi:answered, there is going to be a massive demand for talent that can help build that can build
Paul Dawalibi:these things that can envision these things create these things. That is the race that they're
Paul Dawalibi:they're in, whether it was Activision alone or Microsoft alone, or both together. And I think
Paul Dawalibi:that's the smart part of why this makes sense, right? In the context of Metaverse, there's 100.
Paul Dawalibi:There's 100 gaming reasons, right, which are separate. But I think in the metaverse context, I
Paul Dawalibi:buy that you buy the people argument. Oh,
Jeff Cohen:I 100% do and we just talked a couple episodes ago about how there's only something like
Jeff Cohen:10,000 web three developers total, you know, on the on the planet currently, and just how scarce
Jeff Cohen:of resource that is and how valuable that skill sets going to be. So I 100% buy into you know,
Jeff Cohen:gaming talent is really scarce. And when you kind of amplify it even further to call it like
Jeff Cohen:Metaverse gaming town, which I think is a different and more nuanced skill set. Yeah, is
Jeff Cohen:incredibly challenging. But does that scare you a little bit the fact that Activision Blizzard $70
Jeff Cohen:billion company widely, you know, really the biggest independent game company on the planet is
Jeff Cohen:essentially saying, whether this is true or not, they're saying the reason why we sold ourselves is
Jeff Cohen:because we don't think we can compete in what is necessary to create the future of video games.
Jeff Cohen:Allah, aka the metaverse do a by that statement and be is that scary? Because if that's the case,
Jeff Cohen:then there's only three companies or four companies on the planet that can build this
Jeff Cohen:future.
Paul Dawalibi:I think. No question. That's true in my mind, in the sense that we're talking about
Paul Dawalibi:a revolution that on the scale of the advent of the Internet, of, you know, the invention of the
Paul Dawalibi:wheel, like we're talking about a real transformation of life as we know it, and how we
Paul Dawalibi:spend our time, whether it's leisure time, or work time, etc. So no question that it's going to
Paul Dawalibi:require vast resources, huge numbers of people all working on solving the technology problems and
Paul Dawalibi:building out whatever the shared infrastructure looks like. I think only the very largest
Paul Dawalibi:companies can do that. And I don't think Activision Blizzard was big enough, like, I think
Paul Dawalibi:it's truly the metas the, you know, Amazons, the Google's the Microsoft's these are the players who
Paul Dawalibi:are going to build out those standards that that infrastructure. That's not to say that there isn't
Paul Dawalibi:room for 1000 or 100,000 other small companies that build pieces of the puzzle pieces of
Paul Dawalibi:technology, content, whatever like like, all of its going to come together through the work of
Paul Dawalibi:hundreds of 1000s got millions of people. But I think you need the backing of the very biggest
Paul Dawalibi:tech companies for this for the the metaverse, again, capital T capital M to happen. And and so I
Paul Dawalibi:think Bobby was right there to recognize that Activision Blizzard alone probably could not have
Paul Dawalibi:done it. And I don't think that scares me, Jeff, I think that excites me. Right? There's a
Paul Dawalibi:recognition that this is massive on a scale that everyone is under estimating. Really everyone's
Paul Dawalibi:underestimated. We're talking about an industry that will be worth multiple trillions, trillions
Paul Dawalibi:and trillions of dollars. And, and the recognition that as a $70 billion company, we can't do this
Paul Dawalibi:alone should excite you not scare you that there's a massive thing, a massive change coming a little
Jeff Cohen:bit, but it also, you know, they're acknowledging that it doesn't give me a ton of
Jeff Cohen:confidence in some of these smaller startups that are trying to build the metaverse or or, you know,
Jeff Cohen:create games within it. Like it just it's a little troubling that he gave that that response. I mean,
Jeff Cohen:it's almost like if they can't do it, why is anyone trying to do it?
Paul Dawalibi:They're gonna be inspired by them, right? Like, they know they're going to get
Paul Dawalibi:swallowed by some bigger play. Metaverse play, at some point, that you have to build some technology
Paul Dawalibi:or some user base or something of value that then gets swallowed by someone else that has more
Paul Dawalibi:resources to put the whole puzzle together, right? It's puzzle pieces. That's the way I look at it.
Jeff Cohen:So if you are a VC that or you're someone looking at this space, should you be
Jeff Cohen:looking at kind of smaller plays, let me phrase this correctly, please, with smaller ambition,
Jeff Cohen:like if someone came to you and said, I'm going to create, you know, something like the sandbox or
Jeff Cohen:decentraland like I am creating the metaverse. In my mind, if given what you just said, the response
Jeff Cohen:would be well, you'll never do that. So I'm not investing in you. But if someone came and said,
Jeff Cohen:Hey, I'm willing to create a digital shoe brand, because I know the metaverse is gonna be popular,
Jeff Cohen:and I'm going to be the Nike of digital shoes, then you would say, okay, that that seems
Jeff Cohen:plausible to me that could actually work. Is that fair? Is that a fair statement? That's how I
Jeff Cohen:interpret what you're saying?
Paul Dawalibi:It's a good question. I don't think it's a fair question. Because there's, there's too
Paul Dawalibi:many variables, right, that go into answering that, like, if someone came along, and I believe
Paul Dawalibi:they were the next, you know, Mark Zuckerberg or the next Elon Musk, and they have a huge idea. And
Paul Dawalibi:I think they could they actually because of who they are, could make that a reality. I mean,
Paul Dawalibi:that's part of what being a VC is, right? It's swinging for the fences, I think the more cautious
Paul Dawalibi:or risk averse VCs are gonna want to see some path to liquidity some path to an exit, and will invest
Paul Dawalibi:in companies where, you know, they know it's a, it's an easy roll up into some bigger platform
Paul Dawalibi:that exists already, or where they know, you know, they're building core technology that meta is
Paul Dawalibi:going to need or that Microsoft is going to need at some point. But I don't think I would ever
Paul Dawalibi:dissuade an investor from staying away from a big idea, just because that future requires a lot of
Paul Dawalibi:resources to make it happen, right? Because it's like saying, you know, Google's the biggest search
Paul Dawalibi:engine, they have whatever 90% of the market. I mean, the investors in Yahoo still made a lot of
Paul Dawalibi:money, the investors in, you know, ask Alfred, whatever still made a lot of money, because the
Paul Dawalibi:either a roll up typically a roll up happens in these kinds of situations. And so if I create a
Paul Dawalibi:legitimate competitor to a decentraland, and I have 200,000 users on the platform, or people who
Paul Dawalibi:bought a whole bunch of land, or whatever, you know, this play is, I mean, that doesn't mean that
Paul Dawalibi:at some point decentraland Can't come and acquire me if they're 100 times the size or 10 times the
Paul Dawalibi:size down the road. Your questions tough because there's no like one size fits all answer here of
Paul Dawalibi:just because the the problem is hard, and requires a lot of resources to make the whole puzzle that
Paul Dawalibi:investors should stay away from anyone trying to achieve kind of the big vision and should only
Paul Dawalibi:invest in very small kind of, you know, core tech or infrastructure pieces of the puzzle. I don't
Paul Dawalibi:think that's a fair assumption to make. I also think it depends on the investor, right? If I'm a
Paul Dawalibi:super early stage investor with a $25 million fund, I'm probably not going to invest in the play
Paul Dawalibi:that may need $500 million of capital over its lifetime because I know I'm going to get diluted
Paul Dawalibi:to nothing over time. But if I'm a you know, $3 billion late stage venture fund, that may be a
Paul Dawalibi:much a much more, you know, palatable play for me and maybe more in line with the kind of risk
Paul Dawalibi:return profile I'm looking for where I need the huge exit. I need to be swinging for the fences,
Paul Dawalibi:because I need to return this massive fun. So It's a unfortunately an it depends answer. I think
Paul Dawalibi:there's no, there's no one good answer there. You know, there was this other article from
Paul Dawalibi:VentureBeat, the interview they did with Bobby, you know, he reiterated, I think a lot of the same
Paul Dawalibi:thoughts. In fact, he used a lot of the same language that Sacha did in terms of, you know,
Paul Dawalibi:what's the metaphor? So I'll just, I'll bring this up because he used the exact same language like
Paul Dawalibi:they were really on the same. You know, they were they were briefed by the same PR firm, I guess, or
Paul Dawalibi:communications firm. He says, I think players are going to be the defining characteristic of the
Paul Dawalibi:metaverse. It's a community of players anchored in a franchise, and then those communities anchored
Paul Dawalibi:in some bigger virtual experience that allows you to have either access to your friends or access to
Paul Dawalibi:other content. At the beginning, he says, what really is the metaverse? It's not like Neil
Paul Dawalibi:Stevenson Snow Crash Division. He says that specifically. Um, so what do you think
Jeff Cohen:I'm so conflicted about this quote, because I, like fundamentally disagree with him on
Jeff Cohen:the metal gun, his definition of the metaverse, but I also think that what he just described is an
Jeff Cohen:incredibly smart and savvy business strategy for a gaming company and has worked the last 10 years
Jeff Cohen:and probably will work the next. I'll call it five to 10 years. But it's not a good definition of the
Jeff Cohen:metaverse. I don't I can't get over that.
Paul Dawalibi:But this has always been Bobby in a nutshell to me, right? You got to give him credit
Paul Dawalibi:for the value who created with Activision Blizzard. But this is not a visionary. This is not
Paul Dawalibi:a human being who sees the future whatsoever, right. And, and I think he's just totally wrong
Paul Dawalibi:here completely wrong. What he's described is fundamentally like a VR lobby, before you go play
Paul Dawalibi:Call of Duty, where you can interact with your friends in a VR community is literally like a
Paul Dawalibi:lobby. And I think that is a very, very, very narrow view of this war of this future that suits
Paul Dawalibi:his narrative. I just think it's hilarious how it's parroting Sachi, his comments. almost word
Paul Dawalibi:for word. Right. And, and, you know, for again, we're business podcast, you have to admire the
Paul Dawalibi:fact how quickly both of these teams have got on the same page, at least from a messaging
Paul Dawalibi:standpoint, right? There's clearly no discord from a messaging standpoint.
Jeff Cohen:Bobby's got a couple billion reasons to stay in line to keep himself on brand on point.
Jeff Cohen:That's true.
Paul Dawalibi:One last thing on this, Jeff, before we move on, do you think a year from now,
Paul Dawalibi:when the deal is closed when this is not about hype? And this is not about messaging? And this is
Paul Dawalibi:not about shareholders? Like what once all the sort of the big news and big hype has subsided? Do
Paul Dawalibi:you think we will hear either from Bobby or Phil or Satya about Metaverse in the context of
Paul Dawalibi:Activision Blizzard under Microsoft?
Jeff Cohen:It's a tough question. I think we will continue here. I mean, Microsoft will definitely
Jeff Cohen:have a Metaverse strategy this, this acquisition alongside just generally what they've done in
Jeff Cohen:gaming. And they actually can credibly be a Metaverse or execute metamer strategy. They're
Jeff Cohen:going to have something will it be this franchise driven Activision Blizzard First Call of Duty
Jeff Cohen:style metaverse? No, I doubt it. I think this you know, from a near term three to five year
Jeff Cohen:perspective, I think this acquisition was very much about Game Pass, getting content winning the
Jeff Cohen:console war, all that stuff that, you know, we just covered for an hour just before this on the
Jeff Cohen:business of esports. So if you're interested in that whole discussion, please check that out. We
Jeff Cohen:we covered that. So well. Like that was one of my favorite live streams we've done. So I think near
Jeff Cohen:term. That's what this acquisition is about. But don't make that don't make that comment as Miss me
Jeff Cohen:saying. Microsoft's not going to be a player here. I think they are now the player here. They're the
Jeff Cohen:leader. They've overtaken meta in terms of who is credibly creating the metaverse.
Paul Dawalibi:It'll be interesting to watch Jeff and I agree that this is a catalyst for a much a
Paul Dawalibi:much more holistic Metaverse strategy at Microsoft because, you know, meta slash like Facebook has
Paul Dawalibi:put their stake in the ground. There's a clear sort of vision from Zuckerberg in terms of what he
Paul Dawalibi:wants to do there. Microsoft has clearly put a stake in the ground in the gaming space, but a lot
Paul Dawalibi:of the messaging is metaverse. I would love to see that articulated more clearly in terms of tangibly
Paul Dawalibi:what This is gonna look like and what they think they're going to do.
Jeff Cohen:If I if I can make one more hot take I think Microsoft's biggest asset in the metaverse
Jeff Cohen:is Minecraft. I mean, I think Tron is with a great point there their Metaverse strategy then then
Jeff Cohen:this acquisition
Paul Dawalibi:I mean I could argue wow, I could argue right like there's there's definitely MMO
Paul Dawalibi:kind of pedigree at Blizzard that could lead to metaphors like bows to
Jeff Cohen:Laos to niche to end to to out there to be like a you know, a contender for Metaverse
Jeff Cohen:right like wow is a great gaming you could have thought where my mind is gonna go hang out online.
Paul Dawalibi:True but you could have virtual worlds inspired by Activision Blizzard IP right?
Paul Dawalibi:There's more of a fantasy world area that is wow inspired while lore. Right this
Jeff Cohen:is exactly what you said wasn't the answer. This is literally their strategy. This is
Jeff Cohen:the just hating on meditating on that strategy, and then we came full circle. Now we love it.
Paul Dawalibi:It's not a virtual law. It's not a VR lobby to go play COD. Okay. Let's, let's move
Paul Dawalibi:on. I have we have a couple other fun stories here. This one that headline I think is very
Paul Dawalibi:interesting. very eye catching it says interpret study says 56% of gamers are interested in earning
Paul Dawalibi:NF T's in games. You know, the study polled 1500 console and PC gamers 56% of them are interested
Paul Dawalibi:in learning NF Ts. And it's interesting in the context of you know, Ubisoft and all the backlash
Paul Dawalibi:there were basically they backpedaled Sega saying, you know, we're gonna take it slow and cautious
Paul Dawalibi:because we've seen the backlash to NF T's. How do you reconcile that with this study? Jeff that says
Paul Dawalibi:56% potentially want to earn NF T's while they're gaming.
Jeff Cohen:It's interesting. I mean, I wanna kudos to them for doing this study, I feel like we
Jeff Cohen:you know, for the last six weeks, we've been calling like saying someone, someone needs to go
Jeff Cohen:out and do a survey on this and kind of figure out where people's actual motivations are, and kind of
Jeff Cohen:what people are thinking so so that's good to have some data. Finally, 55% sounds like a lot. But
Jeff Cohen:also, it's kind of not, because if you flip it the other way, that means 45% don't want NF T's and
Jeff Cohen:games. And it's entirely possible that this data is exactly right. And just the 45% are super
Jeff Cohen:vocal. So, you know, we're hearing that vocal minority. So that's potentially option one. Option
Jeff Cohen:two is there could be something, you know, in the question that sort of skewing where it's like
Jeff Cohen:people want to earn, they want to earn FTEs, but they don't want to pay for them. And, you know,
Jeff Cohen:maybe the problem is an implementation and sort of the way that these things, you know, have been
Jeff Cohen:kind of put in put into the game so far. But yeah, I'm a little surprised the numbers 55%. But at the
Jeff Cohen:same time, that's that's decently low, still,
Paul Dawalibi:you thought it would be lower, you thought it would be higher,
Jeff Cohen:based on the public purpose of what we've seen in the in the big negative backlash, I
Jeff Cohen:would have thought it would have been lower. Now, having said that, I would be interested to see
Jeff Cohen:like if they pulled microtransactions or something like I want to be able to buy in game items, like,
Jeff Cohen:Where would that fall? Because if that's like 90% of people want microtransactions that I'd be like,
Jeff Cohen:Okay, now that now that kind of numbers in a different context. You see what I'm saying?
Paul Dawalibi:Yeah, there's a couple other stats that came out of the study, which I think are
Paul Dawalibi:interesting. It says interpret also said that NF T's could play a major role in retention, as over
Paul Dawalibi:45% indicated that being able to earn NF T's through gaming would increase their current
Paul Dawalibi:engagement levels of games. I thought that was interesting. And it says additionally, over 53%
Paul Dawalibi:indicated that earning NF T's is the primary driver compared and they differentiate here. It's
Paul Dawalibi:subtle compared to being able to sell trade, NF T's and the idea of building an NF T collection.
Paul Dawalibi:The quote here says building a collection is not the major motivator right now, gamers are not yet
Paul Dawalibi:viewing NF TS as they would Pokemon cards are collecting a complete set of similar items. Gamers
Paul Dawalibi:just want to be able to participate in this new business and engagement model currently becoming
Paul Dawalibi:an NF T owner is a cumbersome process. With numerous steps across multiple systems and
Paul Dawalibi:programmers and programs. Gamers are likely looking to the industry to help create a more
Paul Dawalibi:streamlined process towards NFT ownership and participation.
Jeff Cohen:But I think that last part is 100% Spot on. I mean they when I think this isn't a
Jeff Cohen:remotely hot take at all, but I think that there needs to be numerous different companies probably
Jeff Cohen:built that their sole purpose is making it easier for people to interact with NF T's within Games,
Jeff Cohen:how to trade them, how to own them, how to easily buy them with Fiat, like, many different like it
Jeff Cohen:should be as easy as buying a gemstone and Candy Crush. And currently it is it is not that it is
Jeff Cohen:significantly significantly harder. So that is a massive hole in the industry right now that I
Jeff Cohen:think everyone is aware of, and there's probably 50 companies out there trying to fix it. But I
Jeff Cohen:definitely agree with that statement.
Paul Dawalibi:Yeah. Are you surprised that earning NF T's is the primary driver, not like the
Paul Dawalibi:idea of building a collection or selling and trading? Like, it feels like the interest is not
Paul Dawalibi:necessarily in the NF T's themselves. It's like, just the thought that I'm getting something from
Paul Dawalibi:my gaming, right? Like there's some Psychology here at play. That's not really dependent. Like
Paul Dawalibi:if, if I
Jeff Cohen:make money versus the motivation is to like, Hey, I got a cool thing.
Paul Dawalibi:Know that says that earning NF T's is the primary driver, as opposed to being able to
Paul Dawalibi:sell trade NF T's and the idea of building an NF T collection meaning or what is
Jeff Cohen:what is earn an NF t mean just like own it for like getting it.
Paul Dawalibi:But this is my point. It's like I could replace that with like, I don't know,
Jeff Cohen:a badge or something. Yeah, like a PlayStation Becker's? Yeah, I don't know that
Jeff Cohen:that's, that is surprising to me.
Paul Dawalibi:That it doesn't seem it's about the utility and it doesn't seem it's about the money.
Paul Dawalibi:But it's just the idea that I'm earning something seems to be the primary driver. I'm just getting
Paul Dawalibi:something that doesn't matter what it is. And I don't care to collect it or sell or trade it.
Jeff Cohen:i Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. I feel like that is that would be that is very
Jeff Cohen:surprising. Because to me, the whole motivation, I think, is to get something a monetary value with
Jeff Cohen:us. But I guess maybe that's me putting my lens on it. So the date is what the date is.
Paul Dawalibi:The data is what the data is. Let's move on. We have one last story here. And this is
Paul Dawalibi:kind of a fun one. And just because I think we I think we have to talk about it in the context,
Paul Dawalibi:especially of the definition of the metaverse, which seems to be a recurring theme also here. But
Paul Dawalibi:the headline here is Brooklyn Nets, become the first professional sports team in America to join
Paul Dawalibi:the metaverse. Like first of all that headline given what's the content of the article, I think
Paul Dawalibi:the headlines totally misleading, but the sub headline says Welcome to the metaverse and this is
Paul Dawalibi:this is about the Brooklyn Nets which is a NBA basketball team. They've officially become the
Paul Dawalibi:first professional sports team to enter the metaverse it says dubbed the metaverse, the NBA
Paul Dawalibi:team debuted a new innovative video system over the weekend that develops 3d lifelike renderings
Paul Dawalibi:in a matter of seconds. Just without all the details, basically, you can watch their game in a
Paul Dawalibi:360 like full VR experience. And it's all digital versions of the players. But they're they're
Paul Dawalibi:taking it from real life, right. So they're digitizing what's going on in real life. And
Paul Dawalibi:they're turning it into a VR experience, or a VR sort of show that you can experience will live
Paul Dawalibi:essentially. I'm curious, Jeff, what what do you think we like, again? Is this the right use of the
Paul Dawalibi:word Metaverse here in your mind? Oh,
Jeff Cohen:no, not really. I mean, but it is really cool. I mean, it's a it's a cool, immersive
Jeff Cohen:experience. And I think we've gotten to the point in the hype cycle where anything that is gaming
Jeff Cohen:immersion, VR, pretty much all of these things are just gonna get lumped in and called a Metaverse
Jeff Cohen:because it gets your story picked up by different outlets. So is it a metaverse? No. Is it
Jeff Cohen:interesting technology that could actually have an application to gaming and to the metaverse? Yeah,
Jeff Cohen:I mean, I think it's I was pretty impressed with the video that I watched, just in terms of what
Jeff Cohen:these cameras are able to do and kind of the real time 3d rendering, which I think is something
Jeff Cohen:that's actually super important, like foundational technology for the metaverse.
Paul Dawalibi:Yeah, it's definitely an interesting sort of digitization of real life,
Paul Dawalibi:which I think is is a and we've talked about this before. I do think that's like an intermediary
Paul Dawalibi:step to the eventual Metaverse and I could see something like this an experience like this a
Paul Dawalibi:technology like this being part of call it some other Metaverse infrastructure, right, where I'm
Paul Dawalibi:in some virtual world, some virtual land. I go over to the virtual stadium, and I can watch the
Paul Dawalibi:virtual Mets game in a way that's more native to that virtual world than just sort of a screen with
Paul Dawalibi:the real life. You know, play There's so like I could see how this is an intermediary step. Maybe
Paul Dawalibi:it fits into a metaverse. I think calling it a Metaverse on its own is a stretch. Again, I
Paul Dawalibi:understand why this is being done. It's to capitalize on the hype cycle. But I'm not sure I
Paul Dawalibi:buy long term because long term truly is. If if these players are not playing on a court in real
Paul Dawalibi:life, you know, if they're sitting in their living rooms playing basketball, in some true Metaverse,
Paul Dawalibi:that, to me, that's the that's when we've, you know, reached capital T capital M. But this feels
Paul Dawalibi:like an intermediary step. An interesting one, but I think a headline that maybe went a little bit
Paul Dawalibi:too far.
Jeff Cohen:Absolutely, I think it is, it is nice to have different. Remember, there's gonna be so
Jeff Cohen:many different on ramps, I think the more we can be introducing people who aren't gamers and aren't
Jeff Cohen:immersed in this world into these kinds of experiences, the quicker the adoption of capital T
Jeff Cohen:capital and the metaphor we had, we had to just start calling a capital T capital and people know
Jeff Cohen:what we're talking about. But the quicker the adoption will be of that ultimate world because
Jeff Cohen:it's going to be very jarring. And it's I think we've talked about this many times, it's not going
Jeff Cohen:to be like a faint Oh snap. And all of a sudden we're all living in the metaverse, I think there
Jeff Cohen:are going to be all of these different pseudo meta verses and small experiences and slightly
Jeff Cohen:immersive things and baby steps. And the more we can get people dipping their toes in and kind of
Jeff Cohen:figuring this stuff out, the better. So to bring in an audience of, you know, basketball fans or
Jeff Cohen:people sitting in Brooklyn that don't, that aren't exposed to this. That's, that's good for the
Jeff Cohen:industry. In my opinion, at least.
Paul Dawalibi:Jeff, I love finishing on that thought it's such a good one. Guys, if you love
Paul Dawalibi:the podcast, definitely go leave that review on Apple podcasts on Spotify on Google Play. Make
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Paul Dawalibi:get notifications of when new episodes come out. We do these once a week. They come out every
Paul Dawalibi:Monday. We love doing them. We welcome your feedback. Jeff, thank you as always, you're
Paul Dawalibi:amazing. Thank you guys for listening for tuning in. We appreciate you guys and we'll see you all
Paul Dawalibi:next week. Thanks for
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