Episode 34

full
Published on:

25th Jul 2022

34. Pixar of Web3, Unity ironSource Merger, Orlando Metaverse, In-Metaverse Ads

In this episode, we discuss Orlando striving to be the center of the metaverse, Unity merging with ironSource, Unity's CEO going off on game developers, 44% of people saying they would accept advertisements in exchange for free metaverse services, Cauldron wanting to be the "Pixar of Web3," and so much more!

Episode 34 Keywords: Orlando, metaverse, Unity, mergers, ironSource, game developers, advertisements, free metaverse services, Cauldron, "Pixar of Web3"

Transcript
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Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The

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Metaverse and web three are bringing about the biggest

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revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the

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prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the juice Cohen. We will be bringing

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you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into

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what it all means. The meta business podcast starts now.

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From the boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta

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business podcast. I am Paul the profit that will lead me. I'm

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joined today by my friend and co host, Jeff the juice Cohen. For

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those of you who are new here, welcome to the official podcast

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of the metaverse. What we do is we cover the most pressing,

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Metaverse, stories and news of the week. When we look at all of

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it through a business and C suite lens, we dissect, we

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analyze the business implications of everything

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happening in this amazing industry. For our regular

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listeners. Thank you guys for tuning in every week. Thank you

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for all the love the five star ratings and reviews I promise I

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read every single one of them. We're so humbled. Whenever you

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guys leave a five star rating rate, leave a review. It helps

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others to find the podcast but the best thing you can do is

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share the podcast with your friends with your colleagues

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with anyone you know who's interested in Metaverse, web

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three, crypto gaming, all of these things intersecting. Share

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it with someone you know, it really helps the podcast to

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grow. Jeff, how you doing this week? I'm good. Busy week, I

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just just we both actually just moved into new places. Because

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we both moved to temporary places. And now we both sort of

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moved to actual places. So we're kind of following the same

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schedule. I've just done complete opposite sides of the

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Earth, I guess. Yeah. And so if an episode or two is off by this

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usual release states, it's apologies. It's

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it's very temporary. That will, we will get back on track as we

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always have been since beginning. By the way, this is

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like we're 30 Plus episodes in the steps of 34. And I'm amazed

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I truly mean it in the intro. Like, I'm so amazed that the

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feedback we get on the podcast the reviews that people leave,

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it's been it's been very, very humbling. When people say how

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much they liked the show. We got a lot of news to cover this

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week. Jeff, we got some good news. And I think there's like a

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theme to the news this week.

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Which is interesting, right? A lot of news stories all around

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one. One particular topic, obviously other than just

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Metaverse, but let's start with something a bit lighter as we

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normally do. And this is Orlando, the city of Orlando,

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Florida in the news, and the headline here. I'll bring this

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up. The headline here is Orlando will test if a physical city can

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be the center of the metaverse. So what they're saying is

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Orlando wants to be the center of the metaverse they've teamed

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up the city has teamed up with Unity, the game engine maker to

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create a digital twin of the city so they want to recreate

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essentially a virtual Orlando in the metaverse and, and what

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they're saying is Orlando is very familiar with this, or at

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least has experienced with this because they say as the home of

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Disney World. Orlando is familiar quote with the notion

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of turning dreams into reality. So they want to become better

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known as the hub for the metaverse web three and the

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related industries which they describe as AR VR AI, gaming and

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simulation training.

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So what do you think of Orlando like a city essentially,

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throwing their hat in the metaverse ring and saying not

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only do we want to be the center of this right, create jobs and

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do all this stuff around it and bring industry here, but create

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sort of the the virtual version of Orlando in the metaverse or

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in a metaverse? Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot to unpack

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there. I do. I love when cities, you know, take the lead and have

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initiatives like that, like I actually sat on a panel back at

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the ESTP esports Trade Association conference we both

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went to in Chicago last year, and I sat on a panel about

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cities kind of getting into esports. And yeah, I think it's

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great when cities take initiatives and try to bring

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businesses in and bring industries in that they think

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are forward facing and good for the community and good for their

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citizens. So kudos on them for that. We've seen this done in a

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lot of different areas, one that comes to mind, just right down

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the road, I guess in Florida is Miami. I know, you know, they've

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had a really big influx of crypto, the crypto community and

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they've sort of like adopted, you know,

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like their mayor has been very forward facing about kind of

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trying to make them like the city for crypto. I think it's

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it's, it's kind of work as far as I know, of your take on that.

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But, you know, so they're following that that blueprint in

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terms of creating a virtual city. I think it's like a

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virtual version of Orlando. I think it's a super cool idea. I

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mean, I don't know how exciting Orlando is as a city, but

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it's a good idea in the sense of I can think of a lot of ways

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that that's cool. You know, obviously cheap

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DEA has had a lot of success creating kind of like mini

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virtual versions of cities and people running around and being

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immersed in it and kind of seeing the places that they go,

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and then being able to do cool things that, you know, maybe

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without consequences, but then city think there's a cool angle

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to that. There's also different, you know, things that could be

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interesting, you know, in terms of like, that could help

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driverless technology, you know, their various, like more real

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world things rather than games, of city city planning, just

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throwing out a few things. So I think the idea of creating a

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virtual version of Orlando is probably pretty cool. But the

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bigger question I have from all this is like, it's great to say

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all these things, and have a conference at a press release

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that announcement, but like, what does this actually mean, in

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a short of creating, like Google Maps version of, of Orlando,

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within within Unity? Like what's next, like? And maybe the

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article dives into it a little bit more, but like, are they

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going to be giving grants like, will they be? Like, how would

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they actually foster this this team?

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Yeah, it's not, I mean, it's not laid out in detail in the

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article.

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That for me, this article was like, it was like a bit of a

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roller coaster, ironically, you know, talking about Disney

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World, there was a lot of ups and downs. And, you know, it's

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like city backing, a big futuristic play, big thumbs up,

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right? Because that's going to lead to job creation and lead to

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companies moving there. The same way. You know, Miami, I think,

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had a lot of has had and continues or Miami and Palm

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Beach has had a lot of success, attracting crypto and finance

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and like a whole bunch of industries that are now moving

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out there.

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You know, this is great for Orlando to be getting ahead of

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this and saying we want to be a part of this. And I'm assuming

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there are dollars there have to there has to your point. It

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can't just be taught there has to be dollars behind it. There

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has to be something to pull talent like human capital and

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capital capital into the city. Right. That to me is exciting.

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Then, like I keep reading the article, so I'm on this high of

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great city like getting behind this creating lots of jobs

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wanting to attract industry. And then it's like, okay, but then

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the creation of Orlando in the metaverse like, you lost me

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there, right? Like, who cares? Yeah, Disneyland is cool. And

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you know, I've been to Orlando hundreds of times, like other

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than Disney World. There's like a really cool Mexican restaurant

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that I liked that serves great tacos and fajitas. But like,

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why would you care to do anything in the Orlando

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Metaverse version of the metaverse version of Orlando

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other than go to the theme parks right, which is all really

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people in the real world go to Orlando for

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for the most part, like

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it just I am going to continue to rail against one to one

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recreations of anything real world in the metaverse. I just

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think you've missed the point, if that's what you're doing. And

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so I was on this high, and then I lost all faith in the people

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who are doing this, that they understand really the

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opportunity here. Because the first thing they're doing is

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something I think that's completely misguided, right

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doesn't make any sense at all, other than for a press release.

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And then and then the sort of got back up on the high because

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the article mentions McKinsey saying, Hey, this is going to be

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a $5 trillion industry by 2030. I'm like finally we're using

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letter T, because I think everyone has massively

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underestimated how big this is going to be. But then it

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mentions that McKinsey thinks the games piece is going to be

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smaller than enterprise markets and ecommerce in the metaverse

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and I'm like, Well, you're wrong. They're right fun is

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going to be driving all of this.

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And so like it was a tale of two cities with this article for me,

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it was like, they love that they're doing something but

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clearly they don't get to actually what it is because

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otherwise they wouldn't be doing the something they said they

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they're doing.

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But I guess somethings better than nothing, right? Because at

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least it got us talking about Orlando in the context of the

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metaverse. It's also interesting that Disney, you know, given

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we've talked so much about Disney and their Metaverse guy

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like I would have been intrigued if they had been more involved.

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You're true, just as this announcement and part of the

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strategy.

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It's a bit

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and maybe that says more about Disney's relationship with

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Florida government or something that you know, or maybe they

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just don't have a great metaphor strategy yet, but it's

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surprising that they weren't more twined into the story.

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Yeah, it's good point. I mean, you mentioned the Unity

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mentioned as one of the partners right not Disney of Orlando here

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and I think it's interesting because unity also there was

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another story this week from unity.

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Talking about the

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their merger with a company called the iron source. So

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iron source went public a year ago through a SPAC at an $11

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billion valuation. Now it's being valued at 5 billion in the

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merger. Unity has had their share price fall by over 70% in

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2022, and their market cap is under 12 billion. So not a

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merger of equals, but you know, 12 billion and 5 billion, pretty

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close in size. Now, for those who don't know, unity is the

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game engine that is powering a lot of what people are calling

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Metaverse experiences today. Iron source is in fact, I mean,

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I don't know how you would describe them, Jeff, but an ad

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network, right? They really helped a different thing. Yeah,

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it's all ad tech. I mean, they have an ad network. And then

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they do like ad mediation, as well as, like user acquisition.

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So it's all about monetize monetizing games and acquiring

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users.

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Yeah, there was a couple of things that stood out for me in

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this article one, I noticed the merchants valuing iron source at

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a pretty significant premium. Right there, their market cap is

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half of what the company is being valued in the merger.

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And, and the other the other comment, our The question I have

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for you is so what do you think of just in general, the price is

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being paid here, the value the valuations being put here? And

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to you know, is this does this imply, like is unity trying to

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solve the monetization piece of the puzzle? Here is the future

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of Metaverse, monetization all you know, in Metaverse, ads?

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Like what can we draw any conclusions from the merger?

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Because the big deal?

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Yeah, we'll have to take those one by one because I forgot some

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of them. But they're all really good questions. I mean, the

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interesting thing to me, we always talk about unity as as

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the engine, the game engine, it's sort of like the rails

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behind the metaverse, if you will, whereas this deal was very

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grounded in reality, right? Like, if you think look at what

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they're buying, I mean, it's really an advertising network,

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and a b2b software solution for for mobile GameCom. What

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ironsource does is it helps mobile game companies, you know,

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generate ad revenue and do user acquisition. So the best comp

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would be app love it. So very, like web to ground data

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acquisition. And I think a pretty good deal even though the

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the market did react fairly negative to it, I think then

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that's really driven a little bit by investor sentiment

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towards towards just unities valuation. And just to get into

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the weeds a little bit on that, right now, unity is valued more

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as like a SaaS company, their comps will be kind of like Adobe

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or Salesforce, whereas you know, now with this acquisition, more

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of their revenue will be driven by ad tech, and advertising

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versus like software and subscription. So just

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inherently, you know, your multiple will come down, you

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have that revenue mix shift. But I think strategically, you know,

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it's a very smart deal. They're trying to bring kind of combine

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creation and monetization, and bring those two parts of the

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cycle, you know, more more married. And really what they're

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trying to do is allow creators to get faster validation of

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their games and ad monetization earlier on. So you they know

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earlier in the creation process, whether a game is going to be

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successful or not. And I don't know if you caught some of the

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flack that the genre Telo got the CEO of iron, or sorry, unity

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for some of the comments he made, but I figure, there

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probably will be ones that you're interested in.

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I put a link in the private chat here. He made a comment

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basically saying, you know, any developer that's not not

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thinking about monetization early in development is an

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effing idiot, which is a little bit off the cuff. And, yeah.

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I mean,

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he's wrong. First of all, because I think game developers

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first and foremost need to be thinking about making a fun

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game. And I think thinking about monad. Like, there's no nuance

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in his comments, right. So it's impossible to know what his

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actual point was. But like, if the point was you have to think

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about monetization before anything else. That's wrong. If

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the point was, if you're not thinking about monetization at

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all, then you're making a mistake. That's sort of Right,

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right? Like he's correct there. What's interesting about all of

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this whole unity iron source thing for me is almost all the

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conversation around Metaverse publicly is that crypto web

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three tokens, NF T's all this stuff. This is the monetization

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engine of the metaverse, right? And unity, arguably one of the

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underlying platforms that will potentially power the metaverse

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future meta versus, you know, small land

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excetera

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has made a very TierPoint web to Dotto kind of by here. But they

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could have gone and bought some company doing token NFT stuff

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and like integrated that into unity so that game developers

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can monetize their games through tokens and NF T's and all this

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kind of stuff. And they instead they just bought like a an in

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game ad network with very, sort of last gen kind of technology.

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I don't know what that says about their belief in kind of,

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you know what most people are talking about in terms of

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Metaverse and web three monetization?

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It's a great point. Or maybe what it says about the markets I

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thought market hype cycle for Metaverse, because maybe I

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clearly believe that they still believe in it, but maybe when

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their share price has fallen as much as it has, they now think,

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Okay, our investors need to see us having a business model that

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kind of spans both generations, or both worlds, if you will.

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Yeah. But I personally believe today that the far more

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effective way of monetizing anything. Metaverse is in game

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or in Metaverse at, like, really, the technology that's,

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you know, much less cutting edge, right and putting up a

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banner in somewhere in a VR world that I'm navigating, right

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let's that's almost like a sign on the side of the road here in

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real life. To me feels easier and probably more effective than

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very complicated tokenomics and NF T's that not everybody loves

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and gamers rejected Right? Like there's, there's still,

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to your point earlier allows you to build a fun game first and

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foremost. And then you can have advertising whether it's, you

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know, interstitial or woven within the game. Obviously the

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tricky thing with the metaverse is you don't want to break the

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immersion. So you have to find a way to make the advertising

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native. But it makes the makes the monetization sort of second,

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which is ironic, because it's almost the opposite of Jr's of

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his comments. But yeah, I mean, I agree some of these, we've

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talked many times about played earn and kind of how it's

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financialized the entire incentive structure playing

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game. So maybe this is a step towards having that not be the

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case with Metaverse where it doesn't have to be. Every game

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has a token and you're earning things and the currency in the

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game is transferable. Maybe this is a bit more sustainable as as

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a as a monetization like.

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Yeah, and since we're on the topic of advertising and

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Metaverse, I want to bring up the next story here, which is,

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it's interesting. It's based on a research study from YouGov.

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For those who are fans of our content, we also do another show

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called the business of esports, which you should subscribe to.

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Maybe you came from there. We do a weekly new show every

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Wednesday at 2:30pm. Eastern Time, which you should come to

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it's a lot of fun, where we talk more about gaming and esports.

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But YouGov is our is our is our main sponsor there. And you guys

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actually did a study on advertising in the metaverse

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here. And this article talks about some of the findings,

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which I think are interesting, right? The headline here is 44%

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of gamers would accept advertising in exchange for free

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services in the metaverse. So this is a study from YouGov.

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They found that 44% stated they would accept advertising if it

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meant they would be given free access to apps, games and places

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within the metaverse or within the game.

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Now,

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this was eye opening to me, Jeff, because again, so much of

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the conversation is around tokens and NF T's, right? When

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essentially half of the people polled here have said even in

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play to earn games in meta verses and all these things like

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i will i am okay with traditional advertising, right

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pushing an ad to me in the traditional way. If it means I

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get something in the game.

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Were you surprised by this number? I'm honestly not that

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surprised because this is something you see in mobile

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gaming a lot like where you know, rewarded video tends to be

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a very popular feature. And that's basically where someone

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watches an ad to then get premium currency or an item.

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Essentially, you're trading your time for your money, right? So

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it's a you can either buy this for $5 or you can watch a 32nd

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ad. And it's it ends up being very popular. And actually, it's

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a form of advertising that most gamers do not like do not mind

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they actually like it because it gives them the option. You know,

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you don't have to you don't have to ever engage with if you don't

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want to. But if you do want to it's another form of way that

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you can pay for something in game. So I'm not shocked by it.

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And it to your point it is a good future monetization model

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for for the metaverse, you know, so long as you can kind of

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balance that with your maybe your premium economy as well.

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Yeah, and there's some interesting other interesting

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stats in the star

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Call.

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It says 35% of respondents said they were comfortable with

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advertising within the metal space and 25% were undecided.

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46% uncomfortable with the idea seems high like the 46% to me,

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like why would you be uncomfortable with average? It's

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like saying like, if you're uncomfortable with advertising

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the metaverse like, how is it different than advertising in

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real life? Right? Like, I'm not sure why 40 Sit unless they're

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just like, hey, it's a game. I want it to be fun. I don't want

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ads. But to me, it's like if you want the metaverse to be like an

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immersive, real world like experience, like capital and

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Metaverse, there's obviously going to be advertising and it

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may be even be advertising for things that are native to the

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metaverse, the advertising for items you purchase to consume

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within that digital world, which I think is where probably a lot

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of this is all heading. But for for for over 50% of people to

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say that they're uncomfortable with that. It almost makes me

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believe that they're not understanding the true vision of

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what the metaverse will be. Or they're just they're just

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thinking of it. Hey, a Metaverse equals game. I don't want ads in

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game, boom, I say no. Because to me, if we get to this oasis

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version of Metaverse, there's clearly going to be advertising.

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It has to be right clear, it has to be agree. I think part of it

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comes from the fact that for everything other than mobile

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games, in game advertising has never been a business model that

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really caught on, because it didn't really have to, right,

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like, people were selling plenty of $60 box copies. And then

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people were selling plenty of free to play cosmetics. And so

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there was never like a real impetus to, to, to push in game

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advertising. Now. In mobile, that's different. But I think

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that's where this data point is driven by right where there's,

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there is a big cross section of gamers who just are not used to

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this, because they have not seen it in traditional games. And if

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they think of the metaverse as some extension of games or a

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type of game, they will they will see it as uncomfortable in

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that sense.

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I think that's that changes very quickly over the next five

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years, to be honest, because I do think it will be ubiquitous

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to your point. It has to be has to be part of that equation. I

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just I want to I want to finish on one last article here, Jeff,

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where, you know, we

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the headline was, obviously very catchy. People, the way people

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describe their companies, when they're fundraising, I think is

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also very interesting.

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And this one, the headline is crypto gaming firm cauldron

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raises 6.6 million to build Pixar of web three. Now, the

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article defines this a little bit. And it's a quote from the

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CEO of the company,

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where he says a big bit missing from web three, gaming is

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storytelling, people aren't really coming back, because

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there isn't a reason to come back. If you close your eyes and

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are listening to a Pixar film, you can't see the art or

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technology but the story is still gripping you. Storytelling

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is what matters. So what do you think of this take of being the

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Pixar of web three here, Jeff? And what do you think of that

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that quote, maybe specifically? Well, I feel like plenty of

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people Pixar is a great company, and really great at what they

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do. So plenty of people have used in pitch deck, say we

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wanted to be the Pixar gaming or the Pixar of this. So I'm not

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that surprising. I are not that surprised. I think, you know, he

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breaks a great, great point about web three gaming, and

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there really is no storytelling, because it's always been, you

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know about financialization. It's not necessarily about the

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games being fun or aging. So I think that is something that's

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missing.

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I'd be interested to see what kind of game they're building

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how it monetizes. Like whether this is just lip service, right?

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Because it's one thing to say, hey, we want to build great

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stories. We're not about you know, just monetizing you. And

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it's we're trying to do this differently. But then it's like,

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oh, we just created 50 characters, and we're selling

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each of them for all this money as an NFT. It's like, okay,

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well, I almost guarantee you, I don't know this for sure,

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obviously. But I'd be willing to bet basically bet my life that

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if you ask the founders of Pixar, would you ever sell your

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characters as an ft? They would like, throw up and like, shoot

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me? You know, like, I just think that that's the way they view

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their their at their IP and their characters. So, like, you

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okay, it's kind of a dichotomy that like they're almost like

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diametrically opposed to one another. I also think it's

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interesting to kind of oppose this story to the one we covered

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a few weeks ago around I think it was either board apes or the

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other one. Yeah, they were talking about they didn't want

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to create, you know, their characters. They didn't want to,

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what was the Goliath? He said, we're not your age.

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It's interesting. It's an interesting take. It's a catchy

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headline, Pixar, what three? I mean, they raised six and a half

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million duck dollars. So like, clearly, the pitch worked. I

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just, I'm amazed at like,

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it's one step closer to where I think the plane earn, you know,

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Blockchain based web three companies, whatever gaming

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companies need to be. But yet not far enough, right? Because

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as a gamer, what I know, and I think what they don't know is,

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there are I can, I could probably think of 10 games that

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have incredible storytelling,

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incredible narratives and characters and things like that.

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But the games weren't fun, right? And maybe you played it

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once, or you got halfway through and then you gave up. Like,

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there's, there's a lot of games like that where, you know, a

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story driven game isn't necessarily a fun game. And so

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it's like, it's one step closer to being where we shouldn't be,

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because I agree, more storytelling is better than less

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storytelling, but it's like, couldn't we have just taken it

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to the logical conclusion and just said, Hey, we're gonna make

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really fun games. And that's gonna be our focus is so

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inherently opposed, because single player games are always

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known for like, you play them once? And then it's kind of it

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right? Like, yeah, it's not a live service. You don't want to

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own your character and a single player game because you play

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through, it's like reading a book. Like you read the book.

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Now, it's, maybe yes, maybe you own the physical book, but like,

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you don't own the characters. It's over the story ends. And

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that's it. So I like what is the point at what makes it web three

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that

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it's not, it's not clear to me that this is, I mean, clearly,

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it worked in the sales pitch.

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But I would bet good money, we don't see a fun game out of

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them. Like yeah, ABS, or a game that makes sense to your point

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in that web three context, which is, I think, is a great

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extension of what I was trying to say.

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I just, I'm skeptical, call me skeptical, right, until I see

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someone coming out and saying, Hey, we don't really care about

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the token, and we're not going to sell any NF T's before the

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game comes out. Like, we really want to make a fun game. And

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then we're going to figure out how to monetize with cool NF T's

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and stuff later, like until someone comes out and says it

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just like that, call me skeptical.

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But we'll see. I mean, it's an interesting one to follow. They

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raised a bunch of money at a good time, when you know,

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they can put their heads down and focus on building so we'll

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see what comes from them.

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Jeff, that brings us to the end of this week's podcast I will

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say a reminder to everyone to go subs make sure you hit subscribe

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on the podcast right wherever you listen to it. If it's on

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Spotify, it's on Apple podcasts wherever it is. Hit subscribe

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button so you get notified of our new episodes. Also, make

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sure to follow Jeff on Twitter at Jeff Cohen 23 He's always has

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cool takes hot takes him and you love the juice. If you love the

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juice, go go follow him on Twitter and and subscribe to our

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sister podcasts met a woman which highlights women working

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in the metaverse space and in the gaming space. So incredible

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interviews, and business of esports if you're interested in

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gaming in general, most of all guys, don't forget. The future

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is fun. We'll see you guys next week. Thanks for joining us here

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on meta business. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast

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everywhere you get your podcasts, leave a five star

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review and tell your friends family and colleagues all about

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us. Also, make sure to follow meta TV on all socials to get

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more of the best Metaverse content anywhere. Tune in every

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week for another episode of meta business

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About the Podcast

META Business
From the metaverse to the boardroom...
Meta Business tackles the most important Metaverse industry news. Business experts dissect and discuss all of the hottest topics and happenings, from a unique C-suite perspective.

About your host

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Paul Dawalibi