Episode 33

full
Published on:

11th Jul 2022

33. China Crypto Ban, Web3 Gaming Console, Axie Infinity Hack, Nike NFT, Shanghai Metaverse Investment

In this episode, we discuss fake LinkedIn Posts & DAO permissions leading to an Axie Infinity hack, the world's first NFT/web3 gaming console coming out in 2024, a new patent hints at Nike getting into NFT gaming, Chinese companies banning cryptocurrencies, Shanghai investing in the metaverse and so much more!

Episode 33 Keywords: fake LinkedIn Posts, DAO permissions, Axie Infinity hack, NFT/web3 gaming console, 2024, patent, Nike, NFT gaming, Chinese companies, cryptocurrency ban, Shanghai, metaverse

Transcript
Unknown:

Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The

Unknown:

Metaverse and web three are bringing about the biggest

Unknown:

revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the

Unknown:

prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the juice Cohen. We will be bringing

Unknown:

you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into

Unknown:

what it all means. The meta business podcast starts now.

Unknown:

From the boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta

Unknown:

business podcast. I am Paul the profit that will lead me. I'm

Unknown:

joined today by my friend and co host, Jeff the juice Cohen,

Unknown:

those of you who are new here, welcome to the official podcast

Unknown:

of the metaverse. What we do is we cover the most pressing,

Unknown:

Metaverse, topics and news of the week. But we look at all of

Unknown:

it through a business and C suite lens, we dissect, we

Unknown:

analyze the business implications of everything

Unknown:

happening in this industry. For our regular listeners. Thank you

Unknown:

guys for tuning in every week. Thank you for all the love. If

Unknown:

you haven't already, go leave a review on the podcast a five

Unknown:

star review. Tell everyone how much you love it. It's how other

Unknown:

people discover the podcast and please share the podcast with a

Unknown:

friend with a colleague if you're big into web three big

Unknown:

into Metaverse shared with all the people you know, and and we

Unknown:

appreciate it. Jeff, how you doing this week? I'm good. I

Unknown:

just got back from a week long trip to Paris. So I finally feel

Unknown:

like I'm a little bit rested. I actually moved into my new house

Unknown:

yesterday. Although currently there are only there we are

Unknown:

about 50% moved in now we still have a bunch of little stuff to

Unknown:

do. So I'm still a bit of a nomad in law's basement. But I'm

Unknown:

hoping by next week, this time we will be officially in and

Unknown:

then I can kind of put my feet up for like an hour and relax.

Unknown:

It's been a long month as a nomad some extent. I will say

Unknown:

I'm hoping by next week also, I will be back to proper studio

Unknown:

setup. So people should sort of apologies for the last few weeks

Unknown:

because you know, we're both in transit and in transition, and

Unknown:

hopefully be back to sort of the audio quality that people would

Unknown:

come to expect and things like that. But I was going to ask

Unknown:

you, are you fluent in French now? Like, there's no no issues?

Unknown:

No, no, but I do know how to say croissant ate a lot. I had a lot

Unknown:

of croissants, a lot of ham and cheese. I had a lot of Italian

Unknown:

food too, which I'm sure will not shock you, Paul, or anyone

Unknown:

who's listening who knows me. But I had a lot of Italian for

Unknown:

you. You may have missed the boat on that one. I mean, it may

Unknown:

be better opportunities for other cuisines in France. But

Unknown:

as long as you as long as you were happy you had a good time.

Unknown:

But you missed not you didn't miss what's happened while you

Unknown:

were away. And I think we need to break it down as we always

Unknown:

do. And I think we need to start with a story that we touched on,

Unknown:

in fact on a previous episode, and that was the XE infinity

Unknown:

hack. And finally, more details have come out in terms of how

Unknown:

this all happened, how it all went down, so to speak. And the

Unknown:

headline in this article is AXIe infinity hack committed via fake

Unknown:

LinkedIn posts, and Tao permissions. So x infinities

Unknown:

Ronin bridge hack started with a fake LinkedIn job offer

Unknown:

according to this article. And according to the US government,

Unknown:

the culprit was Lazarus group, which is a North Korean group of

Unknown:

hackers. Obviously 625 million was stolen. And the way they did

Unknown:

it was they set up fake LinkedIn accounts with fake job offers.

Unknown:

And Lord in AXIe infinity employees with promises of you

Unknown:

know, big salaries, big, extremely generous compensation

Unknown:

packages, to attract the employees. And then as part of

Unknown:

this job process, they did fake interviews. And and were sent a

Unknown:

PDF file, which was supposed to be the job offer.

Unknown:

And ended up being essentially the the file that hacked their

Unknown:

PCs. And by getting four of the nine validators of the ronin

Unknown:

network, they were able to get control of the network and steal

Unknown:

$625 million. So

Unknown:

you would think

Unknown:

to steal 625 million this would have been a massively

Unknown:

sophisticated you know, like you see in the movies, kind of

Unknown:

operation and reality it was just some basic social

Unknown:

engineering of LinkedIn. I'm curious what you think about

Unknown:

this one? Well, we had known it was social engineering but this

Unknown:

that level of detail here is is entertaining a funny and also

Unknown:

like a little bit scary because it's like it you can see a lot

Unknown:

of people falling for this right like I don't want you got to

Unknown:

feel bad for the guy who fell for this. Like I'm like imagine

Unknown:

going back into the work the next day. I mean, I don't know

Unknown:

if he still works there. I probably assume no, but like,

Unknown:

going back and be like, yeah, so not only was I looking for

Unknown:

other job, I also caused us to lose 625.

Unknown:

But having said that, like, it's not that outrageous to think

Unknown:

that, you know, if you're on the if you're an early member of sky

Unknown:

maybes team, I'm sure you are incredibly skilled. You were

Unknown:

very early to, you know, the metaverse early to crypto early

Unknown:

to plan on gaming. So it stands to reason that you probably do

Unknown:

have a lot of job offers coming your way, at extremely lucrative

Unknown:

compensation, like, I wish I wish we got more detail on that,

Unknown:

because I'd be very interested to see like, what are we talking

Unknown:

ridiculous numbers, like someone's like, Hey, you're

Unknown:

gonna make $18 million a year or, you know, something? Like,

Unknown:

I'm very curious to know what that actual number they were

Unknown:

kind of dangling there was, but it's not that original. It

Unknown:

sounds like they went through a very, like, reasonable interview

Unknown:

process. They still were incredibly prepared. As as

Unknown:

hackers to like, put that much effort into it. You had to

Unknown:

obviously, I assume make a website like you've probably had

Unknown:

to put a lot of effort into, because anyone who's getting a

Unknown:

job offer they're gonna Google okay, what is this company do?

Unknown:

Where are they? Are they on LinkedIn, they have employees.

Unknown:

So I assume that all of that kind of backstory had to be

Unknown:

there.

Unknown:

So you know, maybe they earned their 625 million just a little

Unknown:

bit. But

Unknown:

at the heart of it, honestly, I think it's a humorous story for

Unknown:

us on the outside. But it's also a cautionary tale, both for

Unknown:

employees, like do your due diligence, and your if you're in

Unknown:

this web three world and you're getting job offers, because if

Unknown:

it sounds too good to be true, it may actually be too good to

Unknown:

be true.

Unknown:

And then the other reason for caution is for companies like

Unknown:

maybe don't have it so that one employee can effectively break

Unknown:

down your entire security system if you're going to use a

Unknown:

permissionless blockchain and irreversible transactions on a

Unknown:

on a distributed ledger, like, like

Unknown:

mine. But yes.

Unknown:

That topic I think has been covered a lot and I think

Unknown:

actually are in time Amis have done a lot in since then to

Unknown:

bolster that security have have more nodes and have it be a bit

Unknown:

a bit less penetrable.

Unknown:

But yeah, I think that those are my takeaways. I'm curious what

Unknown:

you think. No, I like where you went with it. Like there's not

Unknown:

that much to break down here. It's sort of a funny,

Unknown:

interesting story.

Unknown:

There's not much like business discussion around it. I do think

Unknown:

there, you're where you're spot on is it's a bit of a cautionary

Unknown:

tale. And I think anything that touches the crypto world, people

Unknown:

sometimes have a false sense of security, right? Like it's

Unknown:

crypto, but it's in the world, right? It's by its nature

Unknown:

supposed to be very secure and,

Unknown:

you know, impenetrable, and, and in reality, and I think in the

Unknown:

context of Metaverse, this is truly where it's a cautionary

Unknown:

tale. And people need to be thinking about this as we build

Unknown:

out meta versus, and there's more at risk than even $625

Unknown:

million dollars, right? Where potentially there's billions,

Unknown:

trillions flowing through meta verses.

Unknown:

That anytime you have a human link in the chain, it's

Unknown:

vulnerable, right? Like you can have all the security in the

Unknown:

world, you can have as much cryptography as you want. You

Unknown:

can, you can have as many nodes, you can do all these things. If

Unknown:

you have a human being in the chain, there's a vulnerability.

Unknown:

And I don't think there's any way of ever getting around that.

Unknown:

And this is a pure, perfect demonstration of that, right?

Unknown:

Like, you can have this Fort Knox of digital security, but

Unknown:

you can easily manipulate the human brain, fortunately, or

Unknown:

unfortunately, and, you know, let's hope that this doesn't

Unknown:

happen again and that there are good lessons learned and people

Unknown:

are really careful next time but I think it's easy to say that

Unknown:

this will happen again in some capacity somewhere.

Unknown:

But good to be good to be in the know.

Unknown:

Let's move on let's talk about Polian Pulliam. This story was

Unknown:

interesting, Jeff, because he remember you and I talked about

Unknown:

the first web three phone. I think this calling themselves

Unknown:

the headline here introducing poleon One, the first web three

Unknown:

gaming console. And so what they're trying to do is

Unknown:

essentially here, I'll summarize the article create a console

Unknown:

that is capable of running games that are built on different

Unknown:

blockchains. So whether it's immutable X or Solana or

Unknown:

Aetherium, or polygon, or wax, or b&b, iOS harmony lists all

Unknown:

these.

Unknown:

You don't need to switch networks. You can run all these

Unknown:

games on all these blockchains from this console. And the idea

Unknown:

is to make it easy to use. It says for a traditional gamer who

Unknown:

doesn't understand web three. So the idea here is to bring mass

Unknown:

adoption of web three with this piece of hardware.

Unknown:

The gaming console says it says is designed with a fingerprint

Unknown:

scanner. So there is this level of security and it's integrated

Unknown:

With its own wallet, so you can make transactions when the

Unknown:

console is running.

Unknown:

Other than that, it looks very much like the controller looks

Unknown:

like a PlayStation controller, I think. And it looks very much

Unknown:

like a standard console. The release date is pegged for q3

Unknown:

2024.

Unknown:

With the initial consoles, reserved for holders of the

Unknown:

Polian Pass, which is an FP like access, of course, there has to

Unknown:

be an NFT to access it. Yes.

Unknown:

And there was one thing I actually clicked into the

Unknown:

article or the the medium posts where the petroleum team

Unknown:

described it, and they were talking about how it was going

Unknown:

to this was going to be built by the community, which I had I had

Unknown:

a great chuckle about we always talk on our on our other

Unknown:

podcasts about Doctor disrespect and how he's, you know, his

Unknown:

company right now midnight society is building a game built

Unknown:

by the community. And it's like how do you build a game by the

Unknown:

community like it's almost impossible in corporate Daventry

Unknown:

back. Imagine building a console a piece of consumer electronic

Unknown:

hardware by the community. What do you get? Like? How is that

Unknown:

possible? What chips should we use? Let's let's run a poll in

Unknown:

our Dow to see what technology we should use. Like, it just

Unknown:

doesn't. You know, it's one of those things where it's like you

Unknown:

almost hope they're just saying that for lip service? Because if

Unknown:

they actually try to incorporate that it will be even more

Unknown:

ridiculous than them just saying it. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel pretty

Unknown:

similarly, I guess about this that I did with the phone, like

Unknown:

this all to me feels like a software solution. Like I do

Unknown:

agree that if we're if we do get to a point where web three games

Unknown:

are good enough, and people have this hunger for this, and they

Unknown:

really want them versus web two games, it will be a software

Unknown:

solution. Right? Like, I just don't see why you need a piece

Unknown:

of hardware, that and maybe it's because I'm not understanding

Unknown:

the technology enough. And you probably have better

Unknown:

understanding of this than me. So correct me if I'm wrong. But

Unknown:

what makes something a web three console? Like, why couldn't X

Unknown:

Xbox or Sony, just say, Okay, we now enable you to do this, you

Unknown:

know, crypto payments alike, to me, it's a payment, this is a

Unknown:

payment provider, that you've then wrapped into a piece of

Unknown:

hardware that you're going to have to make, it's going to cost

Unknown:

a ton of money. And you're gonna have to get into people's homes.

Unknown:

Like, what are the odds that even if people want to play

Unknown:

crypto games, they're not going to do it on this console. And

Unknown:

these crypto developers are not going to develop for this

Unknown:

console. Like we see this all the time. Like it goes back to

Unknown:

state it's a stadia again, right. It's like this may be in

Unknown:

I have a lot less confidence in this team than I did in Google,

Unknown:

in the ability to actually build technology. That you know,

Unknown:

stadia technology is good. And it failed, because didn't have

Unknown:

content. So the odds of polam one, being able to build a

Unknown:

better console and Xbox, Microsoft, Google and Nintendo

Unknown:

is just zero like it just by the way is all lose money on their

Unknown:

consoles, right? Completely zero, and they have no content

Unknown:

attached to it. No first party studios, no exclusive content.

Unknown:

So as I'm talking about a more though, the more angry and less

Unknown:

bullish, like the more bearish I'm getting,

Unknown:

I think is interesting, in one sliver of what we talked about

Unknown:

at the outset, is the fingerprint scanner. Because I

Unknown:

think there's some rationale, we're okay, like, you have the

Unknown:

hardware, you know, the fingerprint scanner. And now you

Unknown:

know, who's actually buying the NFT. Like, that could be a

Unknown:

little bit of ease of use. I'll give them that. So I'm glad you

Unknown:

came around, because I was worried there for a moment that

Unknown:

I was gonna have to really viciously disagree with you.

Unknown:

Because I think this is probably the dumbest idea maybe I've ever

Unknown:

heard, maybe in the history of ideas. There's none dumber than

Unknown:

this other than, you know, stadia, which was maybe the

Unknown:

dumbest idea of all time.

Unknown:

This one, this one is such a head scratcher. And let me just

Unknown:

address your last one. Because initially, I was thinking, yeah,

Unknown:

maybe the fingerprint scanner is like the thing that's different,

Unknown:

right like that. I get it. Like to answer your question before,

Unknown:

which is, any console any piece of general computing hardware

Unknown:

can do everything this can if the software is written for it

Unknown:

to allow it right. Like, there's no reason why Sony couldn't make

Unknown:

their PlayStation play web three games, if they didn't want if

Unknown:

they wanted to.

Unknown:

The fingerprint scanner is sort of a unique thing.

Unknown:

But I can tell you this Sony and Xbox like Microsoft could easily

Unknown:

do this through their phone apps. In other words, you're on

Unknown:

the console, you need to you need to you know, verify,

Unknown:

validate, whatever, it'll prompt you on your phone on an app on

Unknown:

your phone, use the fingerprint scanner there, which every phone

Unknown:

has, and it'll be reflected back on the experts. This is done in

Unknown:

I've seen in many other scenarios, non gaming scenarios,

Unknown:

it works very well. So it's it's nothing really unique here. They

Unknown:

want to make consumer hardware which even the big guys like I

Unknown:

said, lose money on to play a bunch of really horrible games.

Unknown:

Today

Unknown:

makes no sense to me like, Well, why would you go make hardware

Unknown:

for this and, and their their stated goal also makes no sense

Unknown:

to me it says, We want to make like they want to build this to

Unknown:

make it easy to use for traditional gamer who doesn't

Unknown:

understand web three. I can guarantee you that traditional

Unknown:

gamer, when December rolls around, and it's Christmas, and

Unknown:

they're going to buy a console, they're going to look at the

Unknown:

shelf and go x Xbox, PlayStation, or polio or

Unknown:

whatever.

Unknown:

I wonder what's the what's the button purchase decision they're

Unknown:

gonna make? Like, let's this is only going to be for the most

Unknown:

hardcore of web three gamers, which is such a small group of

Unknown:

people. It's laughable.

Unknown:

I don't know, this is why this is still a PC, they probably

Unknown:

better off using a PC. Yeah. So in your mind is this Do we ever

Unknown:

after this story? Will we ever talk about the poem? One console

Unknown:

again? Do you think we'll hear hear more about it? Do you think

Unknown:

they'll announce exclusive games didn't go announce a nother

Unknown:

first party studio? Do you think they'll get more funding getting

Unknown:

it'll ever happen or not? We will hear about them again, a

Unknown:

year from today, where they're laying off the whole team. And

Unknown:

unfortunately, the project is canceled. That's that's when

Unknown:

we'll hear about them.

Unknown:

This has no future beyond that. If they manage to sell these

Unknown:

10,000 NF T's like lay there, there is a history of like

Unknown:

consoles that sold an initial run and then disappeared sort of

Unknown:

into oblivion. So maybe they make a few of them, and a few

Unknown:

people get them. And then no one ever talks about it ever again.

Unknown:

You just I just don't. I think it's a horrible idea. And it's

Unknown:

an unfortunate waste of people's time and resources.

Unknown:

All right, let's let's move on. Let's you mentioned I wanted to

Unknown:

actually skip ahead. I had a different order here. But you

Unknown:

mentioned Doctor disrespect.

Unknown:

And the doc is obviously a big fan of his I'm a big fan of what

Unknown:

he's accomplished in the gaming space. And

Unknown:

there's a story here which ties back to him. And it's an

Unknown:

interesting sort of NFT slash Metaverse story also. And the

Unknown:

headline here is newly published patent hints at Nike branded

Unknown:

video game NF Ts. So it says it looks like Nikes, the latest

Unknown:

company wanting to enter the NFT and video game markets with a

Unknown:

new patent filing that could include in game apparel. So

Unknown:

they talked about the world's first NFT console actually in

Unknown:

this article. But Nike has supposedly patented

Unknown:

basically integrating NF T's and a new kind of system for

Unknown:

integrating NF T's into video games. And Nike would do this by

Unknown:

court incorporating some of its branded shoes into the games. So

Unknown:

basically, you're playing a game like FIFA or Madden, and you

Unknown:

could buy Nike shoes as NF T's in those games. Now, why Nike is

Unknown:

filing this patent right now we can speculate. But what do you

Unknown:

think of Nike sort of throwing their hat in the NFT in the

Unknown:

video game ring here? Well, I mean, Nike has been pretty

Unknown:

forward, you know, on the like, I think they're they were pretty

Unknown:

early to hire someone they to be like a chief Metaverse, officer.

Unknown:

They also bought artifact. I'm pretty sure if you recall, so

Unknown:

like, and now artifact was like a digital, like a digital goods

Unknown:

more

Unknown:

designer, like almost like the Nike of the metaverse, if you

Unknown:

will. So they've definitely like kudos to them for being a big

Unknown:

company. And actually leaning into this and every step of the

Unknown:

way. I think they've been pretty smart with what they've been

Unknown:

doing. Like I think they're being aggressive, but yet also

Unknown:

like,

Unknown:

very, very focused and smart about it.

Unknown:

What was he gonna say? Let me ask you this general around. I

Unknown:

just I used to just remember my train of thought. It's a bit

Unknown:

surprising. I mean, you know, it's interesting that they're

Unknown:

doing this in sports games, because it's like, I don't

Unknown:

necessarily understand why this needs to be NFT. Right. Like

Unknown:

people are already buying digital goods in those games,

Unknown:

even shoes, right, I believe you can customize, you know, various

Unknown:

parts of your avatar, including their your clothing. So like,

Unknown:

why does it necessarily have to be an NFT in those games? I got

Unknown:

to I don't know that I see that that there's going to be enough

Unknown:

differentiation where you're going to need to trade them.

Unknown:

Like I think they'd be better off just selling a digital

Unknown:

version of the ship where there wasn't scarcity and it wasn't

Unknown:

connected to the blockchain. I mean, in the same way you could

Unknown:

buy a Valencia backpack the fortnight like why does it like

Unknown:

why didn't Mikey do a deal with fortnight you know

Unknown:

years ago to have Mikey close with the swoosh and you know

Unknown:

Nike backpack and Nike hat and like, like, cool Nike gear and

Unknown:

like your rights, you don't need the NFT at all.

Unknown:

It's interesting that they patent this now, they haven't

Unknown:

said that. The article mentions that the likely target is things

Unknown:

like FIFA and Madden. But you're right. Also, it doesn't

Unknown:

necessarily have to be. Here's the question I have for you.

Unknown:

Because this is the second time I heard Nike the same week, the

Unknown:

same week, and on the business of esports podcast, or our

Unknown:

weekly new show. Specifically, I should mention, we talked about

Unknown:

a story where

Unknown:

Dr. disrespect, who's a very well known gamer streamer on

Unknown:

YouTube.

Unknown:

He hinted we don't know if it's not confirmed, he hinted at the

Unknown:

idea that he was going to make a shoe with Nike, right? Like a

Unknown:

doctor disrespect shoe with Nike.

Unknown:

What do you think today sells better? The doctor disrespect X

Unknown:

Nike real shoe. Or if they do a an NF T shoe. And I think we'd

Unknown:

have to qualify the NF tissue where it is right? Because I

Unknown:

think it matters if it's in some random web three game versus if

Unknown:

it's in fortnight, or,

Unknown:

or FIFA or something like that. Right.

Unknown:

So but I'm curious how you break that how you would break that

Unknown:

tie? It's a great question. I,

Unknown:

my initial reaction was that the real shoe would do better. And I

Unknown:

think I will stick to that. But your last point about depending

Unknown:

on where it is, like I think if Dr. Disrespect put a Nike shoe

Unknown:

into fortnight that was branded Dr. disrespect, I think it would

Unknown:

sell very well, at a much lower cost. So you would sell more

Unknown:

shoes, but you would probably make less revenue, but you might

Unknown:

make more profit. So it was a little kind of like there was a

Unknown:

lot of nuance there. As a collector, what do I think? And

Unknown:

I guess this is this is another angle? What do I think would be

Unknown:

worth more a year after you purchased it? I think the

Unknown:

physical doctor disrespect shoe has a decent chance of becoming

Unknown:

a cool collector's item that people were fans might buy and

Unknown:

trade. I think the virtual NFT would be worth almost nothing

Unknown:

after people bought it. Unless there was an extreme amount of

Unknown:

scarcity and they sold two of them or something. And I tell

Unknown:

you why I hate the NFT because I I'm thinking about my own

Unknown:

question. And here's how I would have done it. Here's here's I

Unknown:

think the best case scenario, right?

Unknown:

They Nike launches the shoe with Dr. If I'm Nike I'm the CEO of

Unknown:

Nike tomorrow, and launch a shoe with Dr. disrespect, right? If

Unknown:

you buy the shoe, you buy the shoe, the real life shoe, you

Unknown:

get a code that allows you to get the same shoe in game in

Unknown:

pick the game that doctor disrespect plays the most like

Unknown:

Call of Duty, let's say right? Something like that some some

Unknown:

piece of Nike apparel and Call of Duty.

Unknown:

Only if you buy the shoe and every crypto person because you

Unknown:

could make it an NF t right? Like if you buy the real shoe

Unknown:

you give people an NF T. But like I think your average 12

Unknown:

year old couldn't care less about the NFT. And what I hate

Unknown:

about the NFT is all that will encourage that it's it's trade

Unknown:

ability. It's going to encourage scalpers to go buy all the

Unknown:

shoes, right? And then and then sell them at ridiculous prices,

Unknown:

as opposed to if you buy the shoe. And it's a code to

Unknown:

download the in game skin with no ability to trade or resell

Unknown:

it. Right. Like I guess with a code you potentially could but

Unknown:

it's more difficult, right? If you lock people in without the

Unknown:

ability to trade freely. I sort of feel like there's benefits in

Unknown:

this case. But then you're just turning it into like a digital

Unknown:

drop. Like we've seen this in fortnight for years. And I don't

Unknown:

disagree with you. I think that

Unknown:

generally, yeah, I'm fully agree. I liked the idea.

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. They didn't do this.

Unknown:

I bought a Samsung phone. I can't remember which galaxy one

Unknown:

it was. But there it was, maybe the one from two years ago. I

Unknown:

bought the phone because with it, you got the exclusive Galaxy

Unknown:

skin in fortnight. But only if you bought the phone, which I

Unknown:

thought was cool. It was unique, right? And you couldn't get the

Unknown:

skin any other way.

Unknown:

I just I really challenge the crypto people who listen to the

Unknown:

podcast to think through the benefits of some of these

Unknown:

technologies to the end user because it's not well

Unknown:

articulated. And if if we don't see it, clear as day and Ken

Unknown:

articulated clear as day to the average 12 year old Right? Or

Unknown:

the average 65 year old on the other end of it

Unknown:

I think I think it's all a bit of fluff, right? Like I'm Nike,

Unknown:

I feel like has better things to do.

Unknown:

However, I do see a Metaverse universe world where you can buy

Unknown:

everything Nike you can buy in the Nike store. But for your

Unknown:

avatar like, to me, that's a no brainer. The technologies that

Unknown:

uses I sort of don't care.

Unknown:

Well, that's the whole point. The benefit then becomes why

Unknown:

does there need to be a blockchain? Why does it need to

Unknown:

be secondary tradable?

Unknown:

Right, and I do see that that that increases values because

Unknown:

you know, you're more likely to buy something you think you

Unknown:

could trade it. I just think the entire ethos of the metaverse

Unknown:

currently and the blockchain gaming world. It's all

Unknown:

financialization, where it's like, people aren't buying that

Unknown:

because they want it they're buying because they thought the

Unknown:

price will go until and maybe it's happening because maybe

Unknown:

this this is all getting washed out of the system a little bit

Unknown:

because people are, you know, prices have come down and FTE

Unknown:

sales have come down. But until that happens, I think I think we

Unknown:

can't move forward to really get like the capital and Metaverse

Unknown:

because, you know, it's like, every day when I go shopping, I

Unknown:

don't buy this t shirt that I'm wearing because I'm like, Oh,

Unknown:

next week Paul's gonna come and be like, this is worth 50 pounds

Unknown:

what it is now? No, it's I bought it because I'm a any

Unknown:

clothes. And b i think it looks cool. And you know, it was the

Unknown:

right price. And if it fits, yeah, it's not like, Oh, next

Unknown:

week, I'm gonna sell it for 10. That is the wrong mentality. And

Unknown:

as long as that mentality is the current, like meta, if you will,

Unknown:

I think we can't is we can't really move forward with a lot

Unknown:

of these technologies. But take, I'm going to clip that and I

Unknown:

think we need to put that out on socials. I think it's really

Unknown:

smart. What you just said, you captured it, I think, and I

Unknown:

don't think enough people are talking about that truly.

Unknown:

All right, let's move on to our last duo of stories here, Jeff.

Unknown:

We'll put two side by side here because they're both related to

Unknown:

China. And the first one is China NF TS Tencent. An app

Unknown:

group join industry pledged to ban cryptocurrency and fight

Unknown:

speculation. So it says here in the new self discipline

Unknown:

initiative, China's biggest tech firms agreed to enforce real

Unknown:

name authentication for NFT buyers and to avoid secondary

Unknown:

marketplaces. The agreement which is not legally binding is

Unknown:

an acknowledgement from the industry of regulations that

Unknown:

already exist in China for blockchain based assets. So

Unknown:

Tencent and and croup joining the fight and China to ban

Unknown:

crypto, and if you're buying NF T's there, your real name is

Unknown:

going to be exposed and you can't resell on, you know,

Unknown:

secondary marketplaces. So lots of restrictions. And then I want

Unknown:

to put this

Unknown:

sorry, before we go, there was there's no secondary trading

Unknown:

because that wouldn't sell well. It says to avoid secondary

Unknown:

marketplaces, okay, right. Because the your because your

Unknown:

real name is associated, I guess with the NFT. Now, it

Unknown:

discourages people from reselling for fear, I guess of

Unknown:

repercussions.

Unknown:

The second story is Shanghai to ramp up support for Metaverse

Unknown:

development, Low Carbon Project smart gadgets to help China's

Unknown:

economic recovery. So Shanghai plans to establish an industry

Unknown:

fund with around one and a half billion US dollars in assets

Unknown:

dedicated to Metaverse development. It'll help Shanghai

Unknown:

Foster 10 leading companies and 100 small sized firms, which

Unknown:

could launch 100, new Metaverse, products and services by 2025.

Unknown:

That's Wow, a lot of money, a lot of conviction there a lot of

Unknown:

companies potentially. So a little bit of two opposite

Unknown:

stories here read a little bit of a dichotomy, which I think is

Unknown:

interesting. On one hand, banning crypto discouraging NFT

Unknown:

trying to kill secondary markets, right? Attaching your

Unknown:

real name to those purchases so that they can find you and do

Unknown:

something bad to you. I don't know. Like, they want real

Unknown:

transparency, which is scary in a place like China. And then on

Unknown:

the other hand, you have Shanghai, devoting billions to

Unknown:

building Metaverse stuff.

Unknown:

Explain this, Jeff, how can we have these two stories side by

Unknown:

side? Well, Paul, I want to hear your take, because I think we

Unknown:

were discussing before that you may, you may have a hammer drop

Unknown:

here. But I you know, I think just to hit a couple the high

Unknown:

points. I mean, um, you know, I think we've been calling this

Unknown:

for a while that China would probably have their own version

Unknown:

of the metaverse just because of what they've done with with the

Unknown:

internet censorship and the government. So we sort of always

Unknown:

had the feeling that like, whatever whoever was the

Unknown:

ultimate winner of the metaverse in China would probably be a

Unknown:

quasi kind of government run entity. So I'm not

Unknown:

shocked that that it's interesting, you know, not

Unknown:

shocked that Shanghai is is investing into Metaverse

Unknown:

projects.

Unknown:

That's not surprising. It is interested in talking about low

Unknown:

carbon projects. I don't know if those are necessarily the same

Unknown:

because you know, the metaverse particularly if you include

Unknown:

crypto probably is not

Unknown:

Maybe not great for the environment. So it's kind of

Unknown:

ironic that they throw that in there. The other story about the

Unknown:

censorship on the fence on that one, I mean, I think there's a

Unknown:

lot of benefits to you people using their real name on the

Unknown:

internet. I think a lot more.

Unknown:

A lot of the issues on the internet and on social media

Unknown:

would probably be decreased if more people were required to use

Unknown:

their real names and not necessarily hide behind

Unknown:

anonymous accounts or just be vile and have no no

Unknown:

consequences. So I do I do like that. To some extent. It brings

Unknown:

up an interesting point about the metaverse like, do you think

Unknown:

in the future of the metaverse? Will you be able to hide behind

Unknown:

an anonymous avatar and just be a terrible person? Or will you

Unknown:

be will it be linked?

Unknown:

And then the last piece that you know, we were tying the

Unknown:

metaverse and crypto very closely here, I'm curious, we've

Unknown:

skirted around this issue for you know, 30 episodes. Curious

Unknown:

if your thoughts on that have evolved? Like do they go hand in

Unknown:

hand? Or are they maybe not completely like a suit? Good,

Unknown:

good thoughts and good questions.

Unknown:

Let me answer the first one, which is,

Unknown:

do I think we need to use our real names in the capital M

Unknown:

metaverse? I think probably not right. In my mind. I understand

Unknown:

the benefits of doing that. But I think it also defeats the

Unknown:

purpose, right? Like if we're going to create this alternate

Unknown:

universe that we can escape into

Unknown:

tying it to who I really am, in some ways, you lose. I think

Unknown:

that a little bit of the escapism, right? Like I may want

Unknown:

to be I may be the straightest arrow, you know, boy scout in

Unknown:

the real world. But maybe in the metaverse, I want to be a

Unknown:

pirate, right? Like, I don't know, maybe I just decided I

Unknown:

want to be a pirate and

Unknown:

you know, not in the criminal sense, but you know, dress up

Unknown:

like a pirate talk like a pirate. But you know what I

Unknown:

mean? Like, just maybe that's my thing and my character and the

Unknown:

place I want to escape to. And that should be okay. Right.

Unknown:

Like, people want to go to the office on Monday shouldn't know

Unknown:

that. I'm Paul the pirate.

Unknown:

And then, on the second question, I think

Unknown:

you're right. I think it's it's an important distinction to

Unknown:

make, because I think a lot of times this does get skirted

Unknown:

around. And it's important that I think we put at least I put my

Unknown:

foot down in terms of my thinking on this, which is you

Unknown:

the metaverse can and will exist or can exist, I should say,

Unknown:

without crypto. Crypto is not a necessary component of the

Unknown:

metaverse or for the metaverse to be successful. We could

Unknown:

create holodecks, which is my vision of the metaverse, we

Unknown:

could create

Unknown:

Mark Zuckerberg vision of the metaverse we could create Ready

Unknown:

Player ones vision of the metaverse we could create snow

Unknown:

crashes vision of the metaverse like every Metaverse that people

Unknown:

have conceived and dreamt about. All of them can exist without

Unknown:

any semblance of crypto whatsoever. Crypto is not a

Unknown:

requirement. What has happened is the crypto people. And please

Unknown:

don't take any offense from this. Have co opted the

Unknown:

metaverse, because crypto people for years now have been

Unknown:

searching for their killer app. The thing that brings crypto to

Unknown:

the mainstream, and they're desperate in this search, right?

Unknown:

Because crypto was supposed to put all the banks out of

Unknown:

business, and it hasn't yet. Crypto was supposed to put you

Unknown:

know, all government treasury like all the the economic sort

Unknown:

of foundations of governments out of business. He was supposed

Unknown:

to make paper currency go away, right? Like the promise of

Unknown:

crypto, while I do believe will be realized has not yet been

Unknown:

realized. And so crypto people over the years have gotten antsy

Unknown:

and are looking for that killer app. And all of a sudden,

Unknown:

Metaverse and gaming are the hottest things on the planet.

Unknown:

And so the crypto people like Wow, well, we can do that.

Unknown:

Right. And let's just we've ourselves into that narrative.

Unknown:

And, and they don't have to exist in that narrative. They've

Unknown:

they've chosen to exist in that narrative. And people have put

Unknown:

them together, because the conversations get muddled a bit,

Unknown:

but I'm here to say, I feel very firmly about this. The Metaverse

Unknown:

can exist without crypto. I think if anything, crypto will

Unknown:

end up being just like the payments layer for the metaverse

Unknown:

because it makes sense. It's digital first and things like

Unknown:

that. But I can see how China can refuse one and accept the

Unknown:

other because they are different than distinct and it's

Unknown:

interesting that China has sort of taken the stance, anti crypto

Unknown:

anti NFT pro metaverse.

Unknown:

I don't know if you agree.

Unknown:

I totally agree. I

Unknown:

I think that was incredibly well said, clip that throw that on

Unknown:

all the hot takes. No, I don't have much more than that. I

Unknown:

think that was really well said. I think it it's been something

Unknown:

we've been flirting around and trying to, you know, really put

Unknown:

together our our comprehensive like ideology and then you know

Unknown:

as maybe these thoughts can change I know that that's that's

Unknown:

your your thoughts you know, maybe Maybe mine will change at

Unknown:

some point. But

Unknown:

I think right now what you said is absolutely right. It's crypto

Unknown:

latching on because they're looking for a killer app and

Unknown:

they haven't found one yet. I think that was like a spike that

Unknown:

really resonated with me. But look, I would love I would love

Unknown:

to hear what our listeners think or viewers think I would love

Unknown:

their opinions. If you disagree. That's even more fun. And that

Unknown:

wraps up this week's podcast, Jeff So as always, thank you

Unknown:

guys, thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in every

Unknown:

week don't forget subscribe to the podcast, hit the subscribe

Unknown:

button on whatever podcast platform you get this, share the

Unknown:

your favorite episode with a friend. Share it on social

Unknown:

media. We really appreciate it. That's how it's continued to

Unknown:

grow. And go follow Jeff on Twitter because he's got all

Unknown:

kinds of hot takes all the time at Jeff Cohen 23 Don't forget,

Unknown:

and the most important thing guys, the future is fun. We'll

Unknown:

see you next week. Thanks for joining us here on meta

Unknown:

business. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast everywhere you

Unknown:

get your podcasts, leave a five star review and tell your

Unknown:

friends, family and colleagues all about us. Also, make sure to

Unknown:

follow metta TV on all socials to get more of the best

Unknown:

Metaverse content anywhere. Tune in every week for another

Listen for free

Show artwork for META Business

About the Podcast

META Business
From the metaverse to the boardroom...
Meta Business tackles the most important Metaverse industry news. Business experts dissect and discuss all of the hottest topics and happenings, from a unique C-suite perspective.

About your host

Profile picture for Paul Dawalibi

Paul Dawalibi