Episode 32

full
Published on:

4th Jul 2022

32. NBA All World, Newzoo 2022 Metaverse Trend Report

In this episode, we discuss Niantic making an augmented reality location-based basketball game called NBA All World, Newzoo releasing its 2022 Trend Report that provides insights into the metaverse market, and so much more!

Episode 32 Keywords: Niantic, augmented reality, basketball game, NBA All World, Newzoo, 2022 Trend Report, metaverse market

Transcript
Unknown:

Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The

Unknown:

Metaverse and web three are bringing about the biggest

Unknown:

revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the

Unknown:

prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the juice Cohen. We will be bringing

Unknown:

you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into

Unknown:

what it all means. The meta business podcast starts now.

Unknown:

From the

Paul Dawalibi:

boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta

Paul Dawalibi:

business podcast. I am Paul the Prophet Dawalibi. I'm joined

Paul Dawalibi:

today by my friend and co host, Jeff the juice Cohen. For those

Paul Dawalibi:

of you who are new here, welcome to the official podcast in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse what we do is we cover the most pressing, Metaverse,

Paul Dawalibi:

news and topics of the week. But we look at all of it through a

Paul Dawalibi:

business and C suite lens, we dissect, we analyze the business

Paul Dawalibi:

implications of everything happening in this industry. For

Paul Dawalibi:

our regular listeners. Thank you guys for tuning in every week.

Paul Dawalibi:

Thank you for all the love the five star ratings and reviews if

Paul Dawalibi:

you haven't left a review, go leave one if you haven't shared

Paul Dawalibi:

the podcast, Go share it. We read all the reviews. We

Paul Dawalibi:

appreciate all the love. Please, if you love the content, share,

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leave some kind words. It helps other people to find the podcast

Paul Dawalibi:

and we appreciate it. Jeff, how you doing this week?

Jeff Cohen:

I'm doing good. Doing good. PSA. Yeah, ma fizzy.

Jeff Cohen:

I'm actually closing on a house tomorrow in the real world.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, I was gonna say is it Metaverse house or is

Paul Dawalibi:

it real?

Jeff Cohen:

House in the real world in New Jersey today? Oh,

Paul Dawalibi:

that's way less of an interesting investment

Paul Dawalibi:

than Metaverse real estate but

Jeff Cohen:

probably a little less volatile. Hopefully, I

Jeff Cohen:

think not likely to 100x but hopefully not likely to go to

Jeff Cohen:

zero.

Paul Dawalibi:

Is the question is your Is it near Snoop Dogg's

Paul Dawalibi:

house because that seems

Jeff Cohen:

very far from keep dogs is unfortunately, what will

Jeff Cohen:

hurt the value of the things that we're excited about it but

Jeff Cohen:

it is probably very far from

Paul Dawalibi:

meta versus any corollary i This may be a poor

Paul Dawalibi:

investment, I don't know. But it seems proximity to Snoop Dogg's

Paul Dawalibi:

house is the primary determinant of value in real estate is what

Paul Dawalibi:

we've learned. Now we've got so much to talk about. So let's

Paul Dawalibi:

jump into it. We have actually only a couple of stories today

Paul Dawalibi:

but they're a bit a bit one. As usual. We start with something a

Paul Dawalibi:

little bit fun and light, and that's me and chicken loser

Paul Dawalibi:

Niantic. However you want to pronounce it and call it a

Paul Dawalibi:

Pokemon Go style game, which is not surprising. That's what they

Paul Dawalibi:

do. But this one with a connection to professional

Paul Dawalibi:

basketball, NBA basketball. And so the headline here is Niantic

Paul Dawalibi:

NBA and the NBA which I think is the National Basketball players

Paul Dawalibi:

association. Team up for NBA all world. NBA all world is a first

Paul Dawalibi:

of its kind. It's not on the screen here. NBA all world is a

Paul Dawalibi:

first of its kind game that will place NBA fans into the real

Paul Dawalibi:

world metaverse. So Niantic announced a partnership with the

Paul Dawalibi:

NBA to create this original augmented reality game where

Paul Dawalibi:

it's free to play. Players can find challenge and compete

Paul Dawalibi:

against today's says NBA ballers in their neighborhoods, then

Paul Dawalibi:

recruit them to their team before proving themselves on the

Paul Dawalibi:

court. So it really sounds like Pokemon Go except instead of

Paul Dawalibi:

catching Pokemon you're catching NBA ballers, you're recruiting

Paul Dawalibi:

them. And I guess you duel other trainers like you wouldn't poke

Paul Dawalibi:

him on? I mean, Niantic had, has not I'm trying to think other

Paul Dawalibi:

than Pokemon Go has not really produced a massive hit recently.

Paul Dawalibi:

Is it sort of are they at the point where it's about white

Paul Dawalibi:

labeling and re skinning their existing, you know, franchises

Paul Dawalibi:

and, and this is AR You know, we cover mostly Metaverse stuff

Paul Dawalibi:

here, Jeff, but like does this fit into sort of way they

Paul Dawalibi:

phrased it in your mind where it says it'll place NBA fans into

Paul Dawalibi:

the real world. metaverse. Like, what do you think of that

Paul Dawalibi:

specific nomenclature?

Jeff Cohen:

It's interesting. I mean, they you make a great

Jeff Cohen:

point Niantic has tried to follow up their smash success

Jeff Cohen:

PokemonGo with a number of other games. Most notably, a Harry

Jeff Cohen:

Potter, who was called wizards unite, were actually ended up

Jeff Cohen:

failing, which is surprising is Harry Potter is a great IP.

Jeff Cohen:

Because they haven't been able to repeat the success of

Jeff Cohen:

PokemonGo. They have invested a lot into this AR engine. So

Jeff Cohen:

they've really kind of bet the company on this like AR quote

Jeff Cohen:

unquote, real world metaverse. And here recall we did the story

Jeff Cohen:

a few months back where they got a really big raise a big

Jeff Cohen:

valuation from coke to big tech. So yeah, I mean, I think It'll

Jeff Cohen:

be interesting to follow this one I think people, some people

Jeff Cohen:

who aren't maybe in the know on the data, forget people remember

Jeff Cohen:

PokemonGo was massive back in the summer of 2016. And you'll

Jeff Cohen:

hear about it that much now. But it's actually generating like

Jeff Cohen:

over a billion dollars of revenue, still annually. So it's

Jeff Cohen:

not like this company is struggling and starving and they

Jeff Cohen:

need a hit. They obviously want growth and they're looking to

Jeff Cohen:

replicate the success of Pokemon Go is still a very nice piece of

Jeff Cohen:

business, it'd be interesting to see what they do with the NBA

Jeff Cohen:

license. eBay is clearly a very international game. It's

Jeff Cohen:

probably the sport besides soccer that it does have the

Jeff Cohen:

biggest international presence. It's a sport that's done well

Jeff Cohen:

with video games, both on console PC as well as of course,

Jeff Cohen:

mobile with certain titles. Even in like the crypto metaphors

Jeff Cohen:

type world, the NBA Top Shot has had kind of a moment in the sun.

Jeff Cohen:

I don't believe this game to lose our knowledge or consent.

Jeff Cohen:

The article has any real crypto elements to it. But it does have

Jeff Cohen:

that collectible kind of metaphor. It has the metaverse

Jeff Cohen:

piece to it with the AR and it has the collectible piece with

Jeff Cohen:

capturing players. My prediction is that this probably won't be a

Jeff Cohen:

smash, it will definitely not be PokemonGo. But it probably will

Jeff Cohen:

be better than Harry Potter. And the reason why I say that is I

Jeff Cohen:

think with the Harry Potter universe, you just didn't have

Jeff Cohen:

that many characters to collect. But there's there's only like 10

Jeff Cohen:

major characters in Harry Potter. And that's probably

Jeff Cohen:

stretching it by like five characters. I understand.

Jeff Cohen:

There's a lot of lore, there's, there's hundreds of characters

Jeff Cohen:

in the universe that like let's be honest, there's 10 that

Jeff Cohen:

matter. Whereas at the NBA, there's already a massive

Jeff Cohen:

culture of people playing fantasy sports. That was the

Jeff Cohen:

Collectible Card angle, like you have a much bigger university

Jeff Cohen:

players collect. So I think that leads a little bit to more depth

Jeff Cohen:

in the game. Yeah, I think I think it will be moderately

Jeff Cohen:

successful, clearly not the next PokemonGo. But I think it will

Jeff Cohen:

do better than that. Because along with

Paul Dawalibi:

no, I mean, I can't disagree with any of it.

Paul Dawalibi:

where I want it to take this is just in the article. And I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

know if this is Niantic. I don't know if this is the journalist

Paul Dawalibi:

who wrote this. I don't know if it's a PR person who did a press

Paul Dawalibi:

release and use this. But I take serious issue with this this

Paul Dawalibi:

term. Real world metaverse. It's like calling something a for

Paul Dawalibi:

profit charity. Read like a real world meme. Like in my Am I

Paul Dawalibi:

wrong to say this doesn't exist. Like

Jeff Cohen:

my definition is exactly what we debated about

Jeff Cohen:

when the when they did the race because that's like their big

Jeff Cohen:

buzzword. I hate it.

Paul Dawalibi:

I hate it. I like it. It's so cheap. And I it

Paul Dawalibi:

doesn't make sense. Right? Like I get what they're trying to do.

Paul Dawalibi:

They're trying to cram their little AR game into something

Paul Dawalibi:

that's Metaverse, which is much sexier than like little AR game.

Paul Dawalibi:

But it's disingenuous, it's really disingenuous. I do think

Paul Dawalibi:

AR has the potential to create meta versus small n. Right?

Paul Dawalibi:

Like, if you have if you have AR that's just so incredibly

Paul Dawalibi:

immersive and layers on top of the real world, a completely

Paul Dawalibi:

alternate universe that you can interact with. That's one thing,

Paul Dawalibi:

but like staring down at your phone and seeing a little

Paul Dawalibi:

basketball guy like you know what I mean? Like this is, this

Paul Dawalibi:

is a bit of a stretch to call this real world Metaverse,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? Like it lacks basically all the elements of the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. So interesting story NBA, at least they're trying

Paul Dawalibi:

things gotta give them credit to your point that, you know, they

Paul Dawalibi:

have tried a number of things in gaming and metaverse. And, you

Paul Dawalibi:

know, they're they're better than most of the traditional

Paul Dawalibi:

sports leagues, the Meet sports leads, in terms of trying

Paul Dawalibi:

things. So kudos to them on that. But I struggled. I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

think this is going to be a success. But I mean, I'm not a

Paul Dawalibi:

basketball fan. So it has no appeal to me. And I think the

Paul Dawalibi:

people that disappeared like my antics audience, I think trends

Paul Dawalibi:

younger than they expect or think. And I suspect that's why

Paul Dawalibi:

Harry Potter didn't work because even Harry Potter is sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

like 1314 Plus, right?

Unknown:

I think it's like 30 rolls.

Paul Dawalibi:

That's actually true. And, I mean, the average

Paul Dawalibi:

age of even an NBA fan is like high 40s or low 50s, something

Paul Dawalibi:

like that. So I don't know if they want to walk around with

Paul Dawalibi:

their phones collecting players. But we'll see. All right, let's

Paul Dawalibi:

I want to get to the meat and potatoes. And it's really this

Paul Dawalibi:

one article that I think we're going to spend a little bit of

Paul Dawalibi:

time on here. And this was a report that came out from

Paul Dawalibi:

Newzoo. And the title of the report was the metaverse,

Paul Dawalibi:

Blockchain gaming and NF T's nav gaiting the internet's uncharted

Paul Dawalibi:

waters. And I think what would be fun Jeff is to go through

Paul Dawalibi:

the, they have an executive summary with 10 big takeaways.

Paul Dawalibi:

And they call this the key global trends that are currently

Paul Dawalibi:

shaping the metaverse, Blockchain gaming and NFT space.

Paul Dawalibi:

And I think it would be fun to go through each one of these.

Paul Dawalibi:

And you and I see if we agree or disagree on on this being one of

Paul Dawalibi:

the key global trends or how they've articulated it, right.

Paul Dawalibi:

It could be we disagree that this is a trend altogether, or

Paul Dawalibi:

it could be that we disagree that maybe they got the details

Paul Dawalibi:

wrong. So let me start with the first one here, which says big

Paul Dawalibi:

tech and brand involvement. That's the headline. And it says

Paul Dawalibi:

consumers spend increasingly more time in virtual worlds, and

Paul Dawalibi:

successful brands follow them. As a result, consumer facing

Paul Dawalibi:

companies will be forced to develop a Metaverse strategy to

Paul Dawalibi:

stay connected with their future customers and remain relevant.

Paul Dawalibi:

Since there's no single right approach to tackling the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. Different brands have approached it in different ways

Paul Dawalibi:

in distinct ways. Now, these can range from IP activations inside

Paul Dawalibi:

virtual worlds and acquiring virtual land NF T's to outright

Paul Dawalibi:

m&a S. What do you think of big tech and brand involvement?

Paul Dawalibi:

Cheek level truth?

Jeff Cohen:

I definitely. It has been a trend and I also

Jeff Cohen:

understand that new to you know, this is their audiences.

Jeff Cohen:

They're, you know, they sell data to these brands, so I

Jeff Cohen:

understand why they're pitching this. However, I'll disagree in

Jeff Cohen:

the sense that I think the most interesting companies in

Jeff Cohen:

Metaverse in the future will be Metaverse first companies,

Jeff Cohen:

similar to how the biggest companies on the internet or

Jeff Cohen:

largest companies that were formed internet first it like I

Jeff Cohen:

think it's not going to like the biggest retailer in the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse will be someone like Nike who comes into the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse and is selling you know, using their brand from

Jeff Cohen:

real world from the physical world in the metaverse. It will

Jeff Cohen:

be Metaverse first. So that's my rebuttal, if you want to call

Jeff Cohen:

it.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's an interesting take like there are

Paul Dawalibi:

there are counter examples in the web to Dotto world, right

Paul Dawalibi:

like Walmart did very well post internet to go online and sell

Paul Dawalibi:

online, you could argue it's because they bought jet.com And

Paul Dawalibi:

like they made acquisitions that I agree with Newzoo that this is

Paul Dawalibi:

a key trend, right? brands will need to go where attention is

Paul Dawalibi:

going. But I agree with you that, first of all, not all the

Paul Dawalibi:

traditional brands are going to do it right. And I think they

Paul Dawalibi:

are at a disadvantage if they don't free themselves from the

Paul Dawalibi:

trappings of real world kind of strategies, constraints etc.

Paul Dawalibi:

Like I do think there needs to be a rethink, in terms of

Paul Dawalibi:

engagement in terms of attention in terms of commerce in in a

Paul Dawalibi:

capital and metaverse. So I don't know if this means we

Paul Dawalibi:

agree or disagree with the statement. It's a little bit of

Paul Dawalibi:

a put I'll give it one of these like, you know, mostly agree.

Paul Dawalibi:

But there's some subtlety that I think Newzoo has missed here.

Paul Dawalibi:

All right, let's go to number two Roblox a peek into the

Paul Dawalibi:

future of virtual worlds. So it says here, gaming has

Paul Dawalibi:

transitioned towards multilayered experience viewing,

Paul Dawalibi:

playing socializing. That's what they call multiplayer, Roblox,

Paul Dawalibi:

one of the most popular games. And what they're saying is by

Paul Dawalibi:

analyzing the success of Roblox, they can draw important lessons

Paul Dawalibi:

and basically draw conclusions on the direction of virtual

Paul Dawalibi:

worlds. So what they're saying is Roblox only allows developers

Paul Dawalibi:

to retain 25% of the revenue they generate. And they think

Paul Dawalibi:

these pay structures will evolve and it's something to pay

Paul Dawalibi:

attention to, considering that meta got a bunch of bad

Paul Dawalibi:

publicity for their 50% Take rate and Roblox take 75% So, is

Paul Dawalibi:

Roblox really kind of the canary in the coal mine that I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

paraphrasing, you know, what they're saying? Do you agree or

Paul Dawalibi:

disagree with this, Jeff?

Jeff Cohen:

Well, again, I agree that I think there's there's

Jeff Cohen:

definitely nuance I mean, Roblox has been it early. One of the

Jeff Cohen:

early best examples of the metaverse, I think particularly

Jeff Cohen:

did what they do, right is the user generated content piece

Jeff Cohen:

that could both agree that the future at the metal like the

Jeff Cohen:

future capital, and Metaverse is going to have a large amount of

Jeff Cohen:

user generated content? Because frankly, that's how the real

Jeff Cohen:

world the real physical world operates. It's user generated,

Jeff Cohen:

right? If I walk outside and throw a rock and you know, break

Jeff Cohen:

a car window, it is it is I've done that now.

Paul Dawalibi:

Crime is now user generated content I want to hear

Paul Dawalibi:

from real world lawyer use this as a defense.

Jeff Cohen:

I think it's an important part for the capital

Jeff Cohen:

and Metaverse and it's user generated because that's how the

Jeff Cohen:

real world is It's not like I walk outside, there's a bunch of

Jeff Cohen:

NPCs walking around with no autonomy, but that's not our

Jeff Cohen:

physical presence is so that to get to the metaverse that can't

Jeff Cohen:

be paced. All this part about the take rates. I'm not sure how

Jeff Cohen:

relevant that is to the future of the metaverse. I do think

Jeff Cohen:

partake rates will come down because, you know, people people

Jeff Cohen:

react to incentives. And I think those will eventually, if the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse becomes such a singularity that everyone's in

Jeff Cohen:

one place, the owner of that platform isn't going to need to

Jeff Cohen:

take anything more than a minuscule minuscule fee off that

Jeff Cohen:

each transaction because they're basically getting a small

Jeff Cohen:

percentage of the entire world. So you wouldn't need a mascot.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah,

Paul Dawalibi:

this one is like, I agree with the headline,

Paul Dawalibi:

Roblox is definitely a peek into the future of virtual worlds,

Paul Dawalibi:

that they're doing better than just about anyone else. Where I

Paul Dawalibi:

then this article, or this research report completely loses

Paul Dawalibi:

me is like, take crates, like who cares? Who cares? I hate

Paul Dawalibi:

when people minimize, like, how hard it is to build these kinds

Paul Dawalibi:

of platforms. And the billions of dollars required, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

to distribute a developer third party developers work and put it

Paul Dawalibi:

out to the universe and get it noticed. And they'll charge what

Paul Dawalibi:

they want to charge if you don't like it. Go develop for another

Paul Dawalibi:

platform. Oh, wait, there is none so like, so sorry that we

Paul Dawalibi:

live in a capitalist society. But this is just the way of the

Paul Dawalibi:

world and and eventually I think to your point, all of this gets

Paul Dawalibi:

solved you get more competition as the gets more users and the

Paul Dawalibi:

more competition leads to lower prices right eventually all of

Paul Dawalibi:

this gets priced down to a point that's reasonable because you

Paul Dawalibi:

have so many competitors in the market and focusing on that as

Paul Dawalibi:

some kind of like hey, we got to watch this Roblox is the

Paul Dawalibi:

bellwether here like, is just missing the point entirely.

Paul Dawalibi:

ROBLOX is the poster child for how big M Metaverse will evolve

Paul Dawalibi:

from Little M Metaverse, I think and if the best starting point

Paul Dawalibi:

we've got today. So who cares about the take rate. I'll get

Paul Dawalibi:

this one kind of a disagree at least for me. Let's go down to

Paul Dawalibi:

the next one here. The next one here is the other key global

Paul Dawalibi:

trend the future of music and entertainment. What they're

Paul Dawalibi:

saying they start here by saying artists can't go on tour

Paul Dawalibi:

couldn't go on tour during COVID. So a lot of music events

Paul Dawalibi:

happened in fortnight and Roblox and now music NF Ts are a way

Paul Dawalibi:

for artists to earn a living. Basically, they can sell their

Paul Dawalibi:

singles or albums as NF T's to their loyal fans. And also, it's

Paul Dawalibi:

not mentioned here but when these NF T's get resold, they're

Paul Dawalibi:

still royalties and things that go back to the artists. That's

Paul Dawalibi:

one of the things they like about it. What do you think of

Paul Dawalibi:

meta verses are one of the key trends here is future of music

Paul Dawalibi:

and entertainment and NF T's in that context?

Jeff Cohen:

Well, I think again, these are trends, I think, I

Jeff Cohen:

think where I continue finding myself, I don't want to say

Jeff Cohen:

disagree, but finding nuances that they're pointing out a lot

Jeff Cohen:

of these trends that have already happened in the past,

Jeff Cohen:

like, clearly Music Entertainment has been a big

Jeff Cohen:

early trend in the metaverse, we've seen concerts and Roblox

Jeff Cohen:

concerts and fortnight. Various different events that have

Jeff Cohen:

become very popular. Where I think I disagree is that I don't

Jeff Cohen:

think that in the capitalist Metaverse, they're going to be

Jeff Cohen:

as important as they are currently. And I think if

Jeff Cohen:

anything, the more time that people start spending in the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse on a daily basis, the more likely they are for these

Jeff Cohen:

big tentpole type events or sorry, entertainment events to

Jeff Cohen:

go actually into you. I'm spending 10 hours a day in the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse, I may actually want to go to a concert interact with

Jeff Cohen:

people in the real world, because it's like the one time I

Jeff Cohen:

actually do that a week or something that hypothetical

Jeff Cohen:

future. So yeah, I think it will be less prevalent than it is

Jeff Cohen:

today. Actually,

Paul Dawalibi:

I didn't think that's where you were going to

Paul Dawalibi:

take that I thought you were gonna say that people just

Paul Dawalibi:

become numb to it. Or it's like, it loses the novelty a little

Paul Dawalibi:

bit, and therefore, it's a special. I mean, starting with

Paul Dawalibi:

the NFT one I'm like, again, it's one of those where I'm like

Paul Dawalibi:

sort of who cares, like Spotify is the better solution no matter

Paul Dawalibi:

what. So like, buying some artists album as an NFT is a

Paul Dawalibi:

pipe dream, because 99% of people are still just going to

Paul Dawalibi:

stream the music on Spotify. So like, I don't see how NFT solve

Paul Dawalibi:

any of the existing problem or change any of the existing

Paul Dawalibi:

behavior because that better for the end user. It's just not like

Paul Dawalibi:

I don't care that I don't own the music on Spotify. I just

Paul Dawalibi:

want to listen to what I want to listen to. And, and so I really,

Paul Dawalibi:

I think virtual worlds, you know, swallowing music and

Paul Dawalibi:

swallowing concerts. I buy that maybe more than you do, Jeff

Paul Dawalibi:

because I think there is some potential for like, well Every

Paul Dawalibi:

one can have the best seat in the house, everyone can go

Paul Dawalibi:

backstage and meet the artists, right? You could, you can't

Paul Dawalibi:

crowd 10,000 people around an artist in a virtual space, but

Paul Dawalibi:

you could in a virtual space and in a real world space versus a

Paul Dawalibi:

virtual space, right like so. There's things you can do in

Paul Dawalibi:

meta versus that make music potentially like an interesting

Paul Dawalibi:

subset of the whole of the whole sort of virtual world plush

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming. But the second part about NF T's I'm total and total

Paul Dawalibi:

disagreement like this, this desperate like hope that music

Paul Dawalibi:

will go back to people buying, like the album, just because

Paul Dawalibi:

we've turned it into an NFT Not gonna happen. Mixed Bag, but

Paul Dawalibi:

sort of disagree on that one. All right, let's look at the

Paul Dawalibi:

last of the last one on this page, your future of fashion and

Paul Dawalibi:

luxury brands. And this is it says as time spent in virtual

Paul Dawalibi:

worlds increases, like our identity, our representation

Paul Dawalibi:

becomes more important. Therefore things like engaging

Paul Dawalibi:

skins virtual garments become more important. And you get this

Paul Dawalibi:

direct to Avatar business model, which they're calling

Paul Dawalibi:

potentially the future of E commerce. So consumers gonna

Paul Dawalibi:

want to shop and immersive online environments

Paul Dawalibi:

photorealistic representations of physical garments, and people

Paul Dawalibi:

investing in their digital presence. What do you think of

Paul Dawalibi:

that?

Jeff Cohen:

We can we can blast through this one quickly in the

Jeff Cohen:

interest of time, I totally agree. I mean, this has been

Jeff Cohen:

something since episode one that we both been harping on. I think

Jeff Cohen:

that this is 100% accurate, more time we spend the digital world,

Jeff Cohen:

the more we care about our digital appearance as much if

Jeff Cohen:

not more than physical appearance, the more commerce we

Jeff Cohen:

start doing in the metaverse the more, I love the direct avatar

Jeff Cohen:

term. i Yeah, 100%. Do you think

Paul Dawalibi:

can I let me challenge that for a bit?

Paul Dawalibi:

Because I think I'm with you a lot of the way and I think a lot

Paul Dawalibi:

of people would agree wholeheartedly with your take on

Paul Dawalibi:

that. I had a whole conversation today with someone about I hate

Paul Dawalibi:

that for the most part, meta verses are still grounded in

Paul Dawalibi:

real world constraints. People still think about putting a

Paul Dawalibi:

Gucci store in the metaverse with walls, and a ceiling and

Paul Dawalibi:

windows and like an I O and it bothers me because I'm like, why

Paul Dawalibi:

are we tying ourselves to? Because, you know, it's hard to

Paul Dawalibi:

think outside of that box, tying ourselves to real world

Paul Dawalibi:

constraints. And it's like, I don't know, if I want my avatar

Paul Dawalibi:

to like, look like me, but with a Gucci shirt, like my might.

Paul Dawalibi:

And I'm not. I'm not saying that's impossible, but I also

Paul Dawalibi:

might want to just be a dragon for a day. Or like, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

like

Jeff Cohen:

Dragon King Bucha. So I don't know, I don't I don't

Jeff Cohen:

disagree with that. I think you still will care. That is still

Jeff Cohen:

the definition of your physical, your digital presence. So, you

Jeff Cohen:

know,

Paul Dawalibi:

direct to Avatar still applies. But where it

Paul Dawalibi:

loses me a bit is is like is that future of fashion and

Paul Dawalibi:

luxury brands? Like is there a world for Gucci where I want to

Paul Dawalibi:

be a dragon? I don't know.

Jeff Cohen:

I I see your distinction. And I don't I'm not

Jeff Cohen:

challenging that because I think your distinction is fair and

Jeff Cohen:

accurate. I don't I would I don't want the metaverse to

Jeff Cohen:

become as a digital shopping mall. We talked about this

Jeff Cohen:

before. It's like yeah, oh, we just created a digital version

Jeff Cohen:

of like a grocery store. I go like apples like that. Yeah. But

Jeff Cohen:

I think the, you know, the fashion piece can include

Jeff Cohen:

dragons. And it might or might be a completely new Metaverse,

Jeff Cohen:

Rand Paul l Drago no or something and it's like the

Jeff Cohen:

coolest dragon avatar. So it doesn't have to necessarily be

Jeff Cohen:

the brand we associate.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, yeah. I think that's that's a good

Paul Dawalibi:

insight brought back again here which is there will be native

Paul Dawalibi:

brands, brands, right? Yeah. Air quotes that that may we may not

Paul Dawalibi:

think of them in the same way as existing luxury or retail

Paul Dawalibi:

brands. Like there may be a company that makes great dragon

Paul Dawalibi:

skins right like that's their whole thing.

Unknown:

We got some good ones. You got some.

Paul Dawalibi:

All right, the next one number five played

Paul Dawalibi:

around in blockchain gaming. It says market for blockchain games

Paul Dawalibi:

is overrun by titles that feature rudimentary gameplay

Paul Dawalibi:

without sustainable economies. This is natural. As complex

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming experiences take time to develop it says time passes

Paul Dawalibi:

we're likely to see more blockchain games challenge

Paul Dawalibi:

traditional triple A titles in terms of technical complexity.

Paul Dawalibi:

And at some point size of the player base, though blockchain

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming faces some notable challenges, particularly

Paul Dawalibi:

sustainability and regulatory concerns. These are likely to be

Paul Dawalibi:

mitigated as the space matures. Thoughts on that one?

Jeff Cohen:

Oh, I mean it If people should go back and listen

Jeff Cohen:

to our prior 31 episodes, this is like the whole premise of our

Jeff Cohen:

podcast if somebody says, I agree with the right action

Jeff Cohen:

don't agree with the title as much as I agree with what they

Jeff Cohen:

wrote in nuance. I do think blockchain gaming, Blockchain

Jeff Cohen:

games are going to take time to develop. They are going to

Jeff Cohen:

eventually challenge triple A titles in terms of their

Jeff Cohen:

technical complexity in size deployment, so I do believe it.

Jeff Cohen:

I'm not in unclutter. You don't need to go down that rabbit hole

Jeff Cohen:

because we have times but I don't see Plater long term.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah,

Paul Dawalibi:

I'll just keep this short because we've got

Paul Dawalibi:

like a like you said, Jeff, you can go back and listen to 30

Paul Dawalibi:

Episode 31 other episodes of the podcast where we've covered this

Paul Dawalibi:

ad nauseam. Clear sign right in this paragraph Newzoo. clueless

Paul Dawalibi:

on Play to earn gaming, not one mention of the word fun. All

Paul Dawalibi:

they talk about is economies and sustainability and a whole bunch

Paul Dawalibi:

of garbage that has nothing to do with the success of this

Paul Dawalibi:

trend. Totally couldn't disagree more on this one. They just they

Paul Dawalibi:

it's I'm consistently amazed how many supposedly smart people do

Paul Dawalibi:

not understand what it's going to take to be successful in this

Paul Dawalibi:

specific area for this trend to come true. Yeah, PvE guilds The

Paul Dawalibi:

Future of Work played on guilds and future work. It says played

Paul Dawalibi:

around guilds have exploded in popularity in the last year.

Paul Dawalibi:

Their activities revolve around acquiring and then loaning in

Paul Dawalibi:

game assets to players who can't otherwise afford the high entry

Paul Dawalibi:

barriers of blockchain based titles. The services are popular

Paul Dawalibi:

in growth markets, and they depend on blockchain games

Paul Dawalibi:

offering players enough financial incentives to engage

Paul Dawalibi:

with them. It says the future of work in the virtual realm

Paul Dawalibi:

extends beyond just gaming. As synthetic environments and

Paul Dawalibi:

digital twin technologies, among others become more advanced. A

Paul Dawalibi:

wide range of Metaverse native jobs will emerge to sustain our

Paul Dawalibi:

our tenet digital lives. What do you think of that one,

Jeff Cohen:

Jeff? You know, it's interesting, because I was all

Jeff Cohen:

set to go on my rant about PDU, about guilds and played around

Jeff Cohen:

and you know, how it's basically a digital denture servitude. I

Jeff Cohen:

guess I'll go down that rant a little bit, I don't think I

Jeff Cohen:

think that it is a bug, not a feature of these playoff games,

Jeff Cohen:

that barrier entry is so high that people need to effectively

Jeff Cohen:

take out a loan to start playing the game. I think that's a

Jeff Cohen:

horrible way to design your game. It's not fun, it becomes a

Jeff Cohen:

job. It's a super high barrier to entry to bring people in,

Jeff Cohen:

which is part of the reason why these games have miniscule tiny

Jeff Cohen:

player bases. So I do think that the successful player,

Jeff Cohen:

Blockchain games that happen in the next year or two are going

Jeff Cohen:

to not have those features. Or they will find a way to make it

Jeff Cohen:

such that you can earn these things without spending 1000s of

Jeff Cohen:

dollars upfront such that people need to take out the fact that

Jeff Cohen:

we take out a loan. I think guilds are a solution to a

Jeff Cohen:

problem that hopefully will not exist in the next iteration of

Jeff Cohen:

the space. So I'm not super bullish on guilds as a as it

Jeff Cohen:

relates to this definition of guilds like this financialized

Jeff Cohen:

you know, low syndicate loan definition not really. But the

Jeff Cohen:

second paragraph is actually more interested in thinking

Jeff Cohen:

about these digital jobs that people have within the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse. And at first, I was sort of bullish like that

Jeff Cohen:

actually makes sense that I think I probably still am. But

Jeff Cohen:

as I was listening to read it, I sort of started thinking, most

Jeff Cohen:

of that will probably happen just with AI, right? Like I'm

Jeff Cohen:

thinking if I go into one of these digital fashion store,

Jeff Cohen:

like a clothing store, and I want to buy something, I don't

Jeff Cohen:

need a personal check. Hey, that can happen just digitally or

Jeff Cohen:

just be AI. So I'm not sure you necessarily need people like

Jeff Cohen:

doing jobs. metaverse. I'll leave that one open to future

Jeff Cohen:

iterations. I mean, there's definitely

Paul Dawalibi:

like the guilt thing of I'll keep mine short. I

Paul Dawalibi:

agree with you. It's It's so scary just reading that text. I

Paul Dawalibi:

totally disagree. I mean, these things will not exist in five

Paul Dawalibi:

years. Like mainstream gamers rail against simple things like

Paul Dawalibi:

loot boxes, you think guilds like in this context, indentured

Paul Dawalibi:

servitude will make will make the cut among the billions of

Paul Dawalibi:

mainstream gamers alike, not a chance in the world. And if even

Paul Dawalibi:

if it does, it will be regulated away. Like it's going to take

Paul Dawalibi:

one bad story of someone who like died, playing 65 hours

Paul Dawalibi:

trying to repay his loan. You know, for governments to step in

Paul Dawalibi:

and be like, wait a second, this is scary. And this shouldn't be

Paul Dawalibi:

happening. To no chance that these guilds and they should not

Paul Dawalibi:

survive, and I love your take on it. Jeff. Future of Work. Look,

Paul Dawalibi:

I think Metaverse gaming is all about the Future have fun and

Paul Dawalibi:

leisure time and recreation. Future of Work is a bit

Paul Dawalibi:

trickier. There's probably some use cases for work within meta

Paul Dawalibi:

versus, but it's more like social component of work and

Paul Dawalibi:

meeting people. And, you know, like, I think a lot of that will

Paul Dawalibi:

happen first. I don't think there's ever going to be a need

Paul Dawalibi:

for like a shoeshine person in the metaverse. That seems

Paul Dawalibi:

wholeheartedly artificial. Now, will there be a need for, you

Paul Dawalibi:

know, the equivalent of you know, like customer support

Paul Dawalibi:

people, the elves we talked about right, going around the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. You know, keeping the peace, fixing bugs, getting

Paul Dawalibi:

people unstuck, solving problems, like yes, but it's

Paul Dawalibi:

glorified customer support. And I think those will be the first

Paul Dawalibi:

Native jobs beyond that. I'm not convinced that yet. This is

Paul Dawalibi:

about the future for the future funds more interesting here than

Paul Dawalibi:

the future of work. I wouldn't put this as high as they have.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's number seven, the rush for digital real estate, says the

Paul Dawalibi:

last 12 months have seen major brands like Samsung, Adidas and

Paul Dawalibi:

Gucci jumping on the bandwagon of digital land, fts. Acquiring

Paul Dawalibi:

digital real estate is essentially a bet on the

Paul Dawalibi:

blockchain based virtual worlds gaining in popularity, but it's

Paul Dawalibi:

also a low risk way for major companies to ensure they will be

Paul Dawalibi:

where their clientele is, should this become a wide ranging

Paul Dawalibi:

phenomenon in the future.

Jeff Cohen:

So once again, I agree like I forget whether they

Jeff Cohen:

were writing this list as like a list of trends that happened

Jeff Cohen:

versus a list of trends for the future, because clearly, this is

Jeff Cohen:

a trend that has happened. We have seen this land graph, this

Jeff Cohen:

this kind of brush

Paul Dawalibi:

is currently shaping.

Jeff Cohen:

So they are they are correct. I guess, to add my

Jeff Cohen:

context, I think what is much more interesting that everyone

Jeff Cohen:

is rushing by digital land is really what they're planning to

Jeff Cohen:

do with it. Because the way I think about it is it's very

Jeff Cohen:

similar to like the early days of internet, were very quickly

Jeff Cohen:

after the Internet came out once people realize, hey, I need to

Jeff Cohen:

on the internet, every brand web made a website. And some of them

Jeff Cohen:

were literally just like, hey, here's the location of our

Jeff Cohen:

store. And here's our phone number. And even today, some

Jeff Cohen:

brands that's still basically their website. But what made it

Jeff Cohen:

more interesting and what got really moved forward. The

Jeff Cohen:

internet is when brands when when native websites are coming

Jeff Cohen:

up with like, oh, well, now you can actually come on here and do

Jeff Cohen:

ecommerce. Now you can come on here and talk to people and

Jeff Cohen:

contact people have social elements, and you can create

Jeff Cohen:

your own user generated website. That's, that's when we really

Jeff Cohen:

started to see the explosion of I guess it was to write that

Jeff Cohen:

one. Can't keep these things. Yeah, that was really when you

Jeff Cohen:

saw the explosion, I think of what what to so what will be

Jeff Cohen:

interesting, if not necessarily be stories, right? Hey, Nike

Jeff Cohen:

bought a piece of land in the sandbox. It's like, okay, well,

Jeff Cohen:

what do they do that? Like, why does anyone care to go to it?

Jeff Cohen:

Because currently, outside of like the once a year where they

Jeff Cohen:

do a promotion or something, some news article comes out,

Jeff Cohen:

nobody's going to, they just spent money for the store. So

Jeff Cohen:

that's what I'm looking forward to next two or three years. It's

Jeff Cohen:

like, what are all these people who spent good money on land? Do

Jeff Cohen:

with it?

Paul Dawalibi:

I agree, I don't disagree on this, I'll add a

Paul Dawalibi:

little bit of a slightly different take, which is

Unknown:

if you were

Paul Dawalibi:

if you were a brand when.com was just taking

Paul Dawalibi:

off, right? I would never have faulted a brand for buying their

Paul Dawalibi:

domain name, right, which is essentially virtual real estate.

Paul Dawalibi:

Even if they did nothing with it. They won, right? It's sort

Paul Dawalibi:

of like, You're a big brand, you got lots of resources. This is

Paul Dawalibi:

an easy hedge, right? If this internet thing becomes big,

Paul Dawalibi:

you're okay. You own it. If it doesn't sell what Right? Like

Paul Dawalibi:

you're out 50,000 100 Whatever the cost is, right? Like no big

Paul Dawalibi:

deal. And I applaud brands who are doing all these things,

Paul Dawalibi:

trying all these things. I think every brand needs to be because

Paul Dawalibi:

every brand needs to be hedging. No one knows who's gonna win

Paul Dawalibi:

what that future is going to be we know attention will shift. We

Paul Dawalibi:

know these meta versus people are gonna spend lots of time in

Paul Dawalibi:

them. Now is it sandbox? Is it decentraland? Is it fortnight is

Paul Dawalibi:

it Roblox? Is it Minecraft? We don't know yet. We don't know

Paul Dawalibi:

who the big winner is going to be. Which is why you have to be

Paul Dawalibi:

in all of them. You have to there has to be a holistic

Paul Dawalibi:

strategy to be in all of them. Even if you don't know today,

Paul Dawalibi:

what you're going to do with it yet, and even knowing that some

Paul Dawalibi:

of them will not pan out. Because I don't think brands

Paul Dawalibi:

traditional brands can afford, especially in your world where

Paul Dawalibi:

you're going to be competing against Native brands also.

Paul Dawalibi:

Right like you you got to be there. Where the virtual real

Paul Dawalibi:

estate worries me is like, unlike a domain name. It's not

Paul Dawalibi:

scarce in any way. It's not limited. Right, it's much less

Paul Dawalibi:

of us sort of planting the flag if you bought nike.com. No one

Paul Dawalibi:

else could own nike.com. Right. Like, there's a lot of brands

Paul Dawalibi:

that can put very similar activations in sand sandbox that

Paul Dawalibi:

like are not really differentiated. They're not like

Paul Dawalibi:

there's a nuance here that I think can't be ignored. But I

Paul Dawalibi:

applaud all the brands doing this and I think they should

Paul Dawalibi:

continue to. I'm curious if you think eight you have a different

Paul Dawalibi:

take on it. And this is an introduction to NFT collections.

Paul Dawalibi:

It says the headline 2021 undeniably been the year of NF

Paul Dawalibi:

T's high profile collections being sought after for the boost

Paul Dawalibi:

in social status and financial incentives offered despite the

Paul Dawalibi:

current market pullback profile picture NF Ts are likely to be

Paul Dawalibi:

key elements when it comes to digital identity in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. What do you think of that last part? Profile Picture

Paul Dawalibi:

NF T's key element when it comes to digital identity in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse?

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, this is this is a great question is I think

Jeff Cohen:

I'll go I think I will go yes, but I wish I had more

Jeff Cohen:

conviction. And maybe that just tells them where where we are

Jeff Cohen:

kind of in the world today. Macro kind of like it. Nf T's

Jeff Cohen:

have gone up and now they've come down. So maybe that's a

Jeff Cohen:

little bit of my skepticism at this exact moment. And the

Jeff Cohen:

reason I think that is because like I understand we've been

Jeff Cohen:

very positive on digital identity, we talked about it a

Jeff Cohen:

few, a few few ones up, where you know, people's digital

Jeff Cohen:

identity is going to be important, it's gonna be

Jeff Cohen:

important to be unique. I'm just not sure that that necessarily

Jeff Cohen:

needs to be on the blockchain. You know, there's nothing to me

Jeff Cohen:

that says like, I necessarily need to be on a blockchain and

Jeff Cohen:

be a an NF T in order for it to be a digital identity that I

Jeff Cohen:

consider my own. I don't own my instagram or my Twitter handle.

Jeff Cohen:

Physically, I don't own it legally. But it's still mine. I

Jeff Cohen:

still created and curated and I still care about it. Is it? Like

Jeff Cohen:

I don't necessarily see the distinction where it needs to be

Jeff Cohen:

on a blockchain. No, but

Paul Dawalibi:

you own. I'm at Jeff Cohen 23 of Twitter.

Unknown:

But I don't write but that's my point. Like I consider

Paul Dawalibi:

this your digital identity. No one else can have

Paul Dawalibi:

at Jeff Koons record what

Jeff Cohen:

I'm saying I think I own it, but I don't look, I

Jeff Cohen:

don't it doesn't need to be on the blockchain

Paul Dawalibi:

to what's come surely no one else can have it.

Paul Dawalibi:

And so blockchain doesn't take anything away putting it on the

Paul Dawalibi:

blockchain wouldn't take anything away. It would just

Paul Dawalibi:

solidify the ownership or it might doesn't add much, but at

Paul Dawalibi:

least it proves ownership. It's it's an authenticity

Paul Dawalibi:

certificate. Right. I, where I totally like I I just totally

Paul Dawalibi:

disagree. Like I like the fact of putting digital identity on

Paul Dawalibi:

the blockchain. And I'm, I'm verified in some way my

Paul Dawalibi:

representation all I only own and no one else can use it.

Paul Dawalibi:

Right. I like that idea. Where I totally disagree with the

Paul Dawalibi:

statement is there's no chance that digital identity in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse is going to be A to D painting, like a picture of a

Paul Dawalibi:

stupid ape like this is there's no chance that this is 10 years

Paul Dawalibi:

from now digital identity. zero chance these people are out to

Paul Dawalibi:

lunch if they think this is what digital identity is going to be

Paul Dawalibi:

in the metaverse. I do think it will be on blockchain. I do

Paul Dawalibi:

think it'll be unique. It'll be you'll own it, you'll care about

Paul Dawalibi:

it. But it's going to be something way more interesting

Paul Dawalibi:

way cooler than a 2d photograph. A 2d piece of art and mostly

Paul Dawalibi:

crappy art. Let's face it. All right, let's let's get to we're

Paul Dawalibi:

almost done here. Number nine, the transition from NFT

Paul Dawalibi:

collections to global IP. This we've talked about at length,

Paul Dawalibi:

you know board API club, doing music events, partnerships, all

Paul Dawalibi:

kinds of brand extensions in the mainstream. And they also talk

Paul Dawalibi:

about loot is an exercise in decentralized IP building. Its

Paul Dawalibi:

evolution is fully controlled by the community at large everyone

Paul Dawalibi:

can build applications that enrich the loot ecosystem, and

Paul Dawalibi:

bring it one step closer to becoming a major IP loot began a

Paul Dawalibi:

movement that was then quickly adopted by other notable

Paul Dawalibi:

projects like treasure. And that will reshape the way in some

Paul Dawalibi:

front some brands of the future are born and evolve. So NFT

Paul Dawalibi:

collections to global IP.

Jeff Cohen:

I think it's a trend that people think is gonna

Jeff Cohen:

happen, but I'm not that convinced. I just don't know. I

Jeff Cohen:

think these crypto communities are so much smaller right now

Jeff Cohen:

and people realize that I just think if I walked down the

Jeff Cohen:

street and asked 25 People like what they thought about board a

Jeff Cohen:

yacht club, you know, depending on what city I'm in, I bet two

Jeff Cohen:

of them know what it is. I just I'm not that bullish that these

Jeff Cohen:

are going to be like the New Avengers new Mickey Mouse or

Jeff Cohen:

like, you know, Disney Princess like it's just I don't know I

Jeff Cohen:

think that's a little bit of a pipe dream in the mind of these

Jeff Cohen:

people who are kind of caught up in their own, you know, in their

Jeff Cohen:

own universe a little bit. And some of these communities don't

Jeff Cohen:

even want that. We talked about the article last week where

Jeff Cohen:

they're kind of doing that. So I don't think this is a slam dunk

Jeff Cohen:

as much as they're making 100% agree,

Paul Dawalibi:

I actually don't have anything to add. Like, it's

Paul Dawalibi:

echo chambers that make people like global IP, and mainstream

Paul Dawalibi:

are the two words that sunk this for me, because even gaming,

Paul Dawalibi:

which is way more, you know, known in the mainstream, you

Paul Dawalibi:

still pull regular people who don't know what Roblox is,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? It's that's just the reality and, and board apes.

Paul Dawalibi:

Although every crypto person might know it, the crypto

Paul Dawalibi:

community is relatively small and is nowhere near mainstream

Paul Dawalibi:

scale yet. And I just don't think the IP is that

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting, I'm sorry to say like, board apes are not that

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting IP, as much as they would love it to be. Number 10,

Paul Dawalibi:

crypto and the promise of interoperability. So this is

Paul Dawalibi:

Aetherium. With its side chains and layer twos, it's the

Paul Dawalibi:

backbone of a sizable portion of the NFT and blockchain gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

space. With the theory emerge, it's poised to continue its rule

Paul Dawalibi:

as the dominant smart contract platform. Now with

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability at scale across games continues to be a hot

Paul Dawalibi:

topic amongst Metaverse enthusiast, the path to adoption

Paul Dawalibi:

is currently filled with notable technical and political

Paul Dawalibi:

roadblocks. Nevertheless, interoperability can potentially

Paul Dawalibi:

become a reality as shared standards are being built and as

Paul Dawalibi:

player interest grows. So crypto and the promise of

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability

Jeff Cohen:

Well, this is a lot a lot of trends. We've talked a

Jeff Cohen:

lot about as well, I think we're we are bullish on

Jeff Cohen:

interoperability. But do you see that there's a lot of challenges

Jeff Cohen:

and roadblocks as they put out? Here, notably being political

Jeff Cohen:

when they say that maybe I mean, across companies, not as I don't

Jeff Cohen:

know. So I'm gonna get involved. And so you can't bring that

Jeff Cohen:

sword from, you know, from game to game. But But yet, the shared

Jeff Cohen:

standards is something we talked about last week. And with some

Jeff Cohen:

of these big tech companies starting to create shared

Jeff Cohen:

medical standards, that's something we're bullish on. So I

Jeff Cohen:

think I do agree with the take terms of it being theory versus

Jeff Cohen:

layer twos, that's a little bit outside.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, I'll put, I'll change the headline a bit

Paul Dawalibi:

to be more accurate. It's not crypto in the promise of

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability, its crypto and the need for interoperability.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's a need for capital and Metaverse to happen,

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability has to happen. What this is also missing is

Paul Dawalibi:

that the game developers, the big game developers are gonna

Paul Dawalibi:

fight this to the bitter end. They have every incentive for

Paul Dawalibi:

this for interoperability to not happen. So as much as companies

Paul Dawalibi:

like Mehta and others get together to Creech standards,

Paul Dawalibi:

which is great. The big games, game developers are all going to

Paul Dawalibi:

fight this to the very bitter end, and they will eventually

Paul Dawalibi:

capitulate, but it's going to take years, and it will be ugly,

Paul Dawalibi:

and it will be messy. And, and it will be necessary, though.

Paul Dawalibi:

And we will get to that holy grail capital and metaverse. But

Paul Dawalibi:

the game developers are going to go kicking and screaming I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

think they're willingly just going to open up all the walled

Paul Dawalibi:

gardens give up tons of revenue, you know, for for the promise

Paul Dawalibi:

of, of, you know, a beautiful garden of Eden Right? Like, I

Paul Dawalibi:

just don't, I just don't think that's going to happen as easily

Paul Dawalibi:

or as beautifully as they've articulated here. Jeff, this is

Paul Dawalibi:

like a great kind of like Greatest Hits episode, sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

like I liked that this research report touched on a lot of

Paul Dawalibi:

things we've talked about before. And hopefully you guys

Paul Dawalibi:

enjoyed this like a little bit of a summary of a lot of things

Paul Dawalibi:

we've talked about over the last 31 episodes, separate the

Paul Dawalibi:

episode 32. And, like I said, hope you guys are enjoying it.

Paul Dawalibi:

That brings us to the end of this podcast, Jeff, thank you.

Paul Dawalibi:

As always, thank you guys for listening. Make sure you

Paul Dawalibi:

subscribe to men of business, subscribe to our sister podcast

Paul Dawalibi:

man or woman. And we also do a bunch of crypto podcasts. If you

Paul Dawalibi:

love our content, go subscribe to crypto capsule on YouTube or

Paul Dawalibi:

on any podcast platform crypto capsule hosted by one of the

Paul Dawalibi:

biggest crypto influencers in the world. Henri ARSLANIAN, you

Paul Dawalibi:

guys I think will really enjoy that content. If you're into

Paul Dawalibi:

crypto, which you shouldn't be if you're watching Metal

Paul Dawalibi:

business or listening to metal business. So definitely go check

Paul Dawalibi:

that out. Jeff. Thank you. Thank you guys for listening. Don't

Paul Dawalibi:

forget guys, the future is fun. We'll see you next week.

Unknown:

Thanks for joining us here on meta business. Make sure

Unknown:

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About the Podcast

META Business
From the metaverse to the boardroom...
Meta Business tackles the most important Metaverse industry news. Business experts dissect and discuss all of the hottest topics and happenings, from a unique C-suite perspective.

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