Episode 31

full
Published on:

27th Jun 2022

31. Bored Ape Board Game, Clueless Crypto Punks, Metaverse Billions, Metaverse Standards, Oculus Moat, Web3 Mobile Phones

In this episode, we discuss Imagination Gaming launching a Bored Ape board game, Noah Davis leaving Christie's for Crypto Punks, Mark Zuckerberg envisioning big spending from Metaverse consumers and predicting a billion metaverse users, Microsoft and Meta creating The Metaverse Standards Forum, Solana Labs aiming to make Web3 mobile phones, and so much more!

Episode 31 Keywords: Imagination Gaming, Bored Ape board game, Noah Davis, Christie's, Crypto Punks, Mark Zuckerberg, Metaverse consumers, Microsoft, Meta, The Metaverse Standards Forum, Solana Labs, Web3, mobile phones

Transcript
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Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The

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Metaverse and web three are bringing about the biggest

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revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the

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prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the juice Cohen. We will be bringing

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you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into

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what it all means. The meta business podcast starts now.

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From the boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta

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business podcast. I am Paul the Prophet Dawalibi. I'm joined

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today by my friend and co host, Jeff, the juice Cohen. For those

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of you who are new here, welcome to the official podcast in the

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metaverse. What we do is we cover the most pressing,

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Metaverse, news and topics of the week. When we look at all of

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it through a business and C suite lens, we dissect we

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analyze the business implications of everything

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happening in this industry. For our regular listeners. Thank you

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guys for tuning in every week, thank you for leaving a five

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star rating and review. I read all of your reviews guys, I read

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every feedback you leave on the podcast. We really appreciate it

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when you show love when you subscribe when you leave a

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review. Or even better just share it with a colleague with a

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friend. If you love the content, if you love the podcast sharing

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it is the absolute best way of showing that love. Jeff, how you

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doing this week? I'm very good. We were recording on a special

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day today. Arguably the most special day of the year. My

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birth knows the most, you'd be a little bit biased.

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And by the way, I forgot to say last week congrats on 30

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episodes. This is episode 31. But like kind of a small

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milestone 30 episodes pretty big. I think for podcasts. 30

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episodes is big that the podcast is growing, we're getting a lot

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more listens. You just mentioned actually in the pre show that

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we're now getting requests for people to come on and be

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interviewed. So I'd be curious, you know, to the regular

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listeners, like let us know if you want us to have people on as

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guests and interview them. And then also who you'd want. We've

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had some some great people write to us and say they want to come

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on as guest. But it would be great to hear from our

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listeners, like other people you want us to try to get if we go

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down that path, we'd love to hear feedback.

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Yeah, I think that's such a good point. I mean, we've held off

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because, you know, we've had this format, and it's been

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working and people like it and it's, you know, been snappy and

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punchy. And it's a bit shorter than your usual podcasts maybe.

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But, you know, there's been, like you said, so much inbound

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interest, people in the web three world in the metaverse

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world in the crypto world in the NFT world you name it all sorts

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of asking to be on the show. And I think we're open to it right I

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think it's all going to depend on the kind of feedback we get

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from from you guys from the listeners and

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if you want to see it or hear it or not. So I will say an empty

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world I hear you're now a famous NFT subject if you will, I

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already was just to be clear, to be clear.

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We we mented the world's first esports NFT and so like if you

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want to be the the absolute if you want to be the collector of

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all collectors you know the creme de la creme of collectors.

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That's the NFT you want to having said that you know I I

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was supposed to be speaking at an ft NYC this week. I'm not

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there, obviously. But they minted like 10 NF T's for every

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speaker who's there. And I was surprised to see that people

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claimed my NF T's right? This is just my face, which arguably is

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maybe the best subject matter for an NF T but

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it was it was interesting to see. I will say though I still

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believe the one to own is the world's first esports NFT you

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can go on open sea you can check it out history it was history

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making no one had ever done this before in the esports world and

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that's the one you want to own if you're a real if you're a

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real collector

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for these days.

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I am not sure yeah, I've actually I feel I'm sorry like

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you put me on the spot they actually I'm not sure it's some

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reasonable amount given the historic nature Well,

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price on it so I can't

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the price is too low right regardless of what it is. That's

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just

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All right, let's get let's get to news we got so much to cover

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this week.

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And in fact, I want to start with some board apes speaking of

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NF T's let's start with you know maybe the biggest other than

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other than mine of course and and that is the headline here

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imagination gaming partners with board a community to launch a

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papalii game. So the first ever NFT inspired board game and I

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don't know if this is purposeful spelling here I am guessing it

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is obviously it's in quotes

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will feature 22 board eight caricatures with

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Chance for players to win exclusive board a yacht club

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NFT. So it's a board game, it features board apes. And you can

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win an NFT. I'm not sure how, you know via presale, they're

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pre selling it via a papalii.com. If you're really

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interested in this, I don't know if it's loosely based on

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monopoly. I'm not sure what the the rules of this tabletop game

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are.

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But it is a tabletop game, it is a board game, using board eight

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characters. What do you think of this? Jeff, other than the

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fantastic Pong, I love the Pong. I'm always a sucker for fun. I

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like to board eight is expanding the IP into different areas.

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Like I think, you know, the fact that they're, they're bringing

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it on the board game is interesting. I just don't know

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how big what is the overlap between board eight fans and

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that that, you know, mindset versus people who play board

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games and tabletop monopoly. Like, I suspect that the number

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of people who are fans of board eight is not, it's not tiny, but

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it's not huge to begin with. And then the overlap between those

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people and the people who are really hardcore into monopoly

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and like, board games has to be very low. So I wonder if they're

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gonna sell this as almost like a collectible thing. Because that

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could make sense. They sell it at a high price. It's almost

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like collectible. Because we know that the mindset of these

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NFT collectors and the people who are buying board apes,

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they're willing to pay up for something scarce in nature and

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has value or even even more so like secondary market value. So

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I can kind of see that. But if they're trying to make this like

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an actual mass market product where like, you know, your

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parents or my parents can walk into a CVS and like, want to buy

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a board game, and they buy this instead of monopoly or glue or

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whatever else. I'm not so bullish on.

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Well, it does say it says that there's a quote here in the

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article from the president of imagination, gaming, who they're

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the partner that they're making the game with. And it says

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beyond getting in on the board a pipe. The gameplay allows

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everyone to learn a little bit about the crypto world, even if

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you don't fully understand NFT jargon, or the cryptocurrency

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world. I mean, I don't really buy that, right. Like, to me,

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the audience for this is really, its collectors, it probably is

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not a fun game. There's probably no one in this audience that

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cares to play a tabletop game for the most part. And I feel

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like this is just another collectible. And let's face it,

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the people who buy board apes are collectors, right? They're,

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they're paying for collectibles. This is just another collectible

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to sell them.

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100 No, I think I 100% agree with that. I wouldn't be

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surprised to see these things selling on ebay make a limited

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amount still selling on the secondary market for big dogs.

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But yeah, to your point, it's a collectible.

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I mean, they're pre ordering for $50. But it doesn't say if it's

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a limited run or not. I'm not sure that I mean, again, it's

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interesting that if the boxes fire, I bet you could buy it for

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like 250 400 or sell it for that.

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And I bet that they make a ton of easy money on something like

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this just because people buy for this exact reason to collect it.

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Now. You know, let's put the story next to another one. And

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this one you spotted on Twitter, which I love. Let me show the

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story first and then I'll show the Twitter post. The story here

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was Christie's wonderkid no and Davis who sold that $69 million

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people is leaving the auction house to lead crypto punks into

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the future. Now, for those who don't know crypto punks, also

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owned by Hugo labs, who owns board a yacht club. So same

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company we're talking about here. And Noah as part of this

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new new role, put out a series of tweets which I'm going to

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read here. So he says I'm humbled and honored to announce

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I'll be leaving my current post in July to steward the crypto

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punks as brand lead under the umbrella of yoga labs. Before I

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say anything else, it's important to confirm what we

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won't be doing. Simply put, I will not F with the punks. What

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does that mean? It means no punk punks on lunchboxes or cringe TV

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shows slash bad movies. It means no arbitrary rushed utility or

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thoughtless airdrops. It means if you love your punks because

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they are what they are just punks. Then you and I see eye to

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eye. The first thing I will do is this. If you're a punk holder

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and you care about the legacy future of the brand, I want to

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talk one on one. I'll be at the punks brunch during NFT NYC and

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will begin scheduling sit downs immediately. Wherever punks go

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the community will help guide us now. He says a bunch of other

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things but that was the gist of this

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What do you think of his comments, Jeff? Especially

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compared to the last story where we saw you collapse? Again, the

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company he's just joined this call it selling out in the way

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he says he's never gonna do with the board apes IP?

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Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure I understand this, when you own an

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IP, you know, one of the ways to monetize it is through these

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various different channels. You know, for game movies like this,

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this is a Disney strategy, right? They literally coined

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that right, you have an AI, dicing exactly the, that's the

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perfect word merchandising, put in store and make stuff down on

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when you make a ride at theme park. And for a long time, I

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feel like we were hearing that these crypto brands were

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becoming IPs. And then they were going to do that exact

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merchandising strategy, there was going to be a video game, it

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was going to be a movie. And if you own the the eight, you would

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be able to use your aid in those things. And you would get

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merchants you would get

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you would get revenue shares from which to some extent made a

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little bit of sense, if you assume that these things

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actually are right. He's not sure how much I buy into that. I

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think the top couple are fairly well known amongst people like

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us who in this world, but I don't think they're, you know,

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it's not Mickey Mouse, let's put it that way. So I'm a bit

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surprised that, you know, he feels that this is what the

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community wants, and that there's this backlash to using

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their the, what is an IP as actually an IP to make revenue.

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So I'm surprised it's one thing to be thoughtful like, I

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understand if his point was like, Look, we're just not going

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to be crazy about it and make it just completely in your face and

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try to monetize something I can I can get behind that like being

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being careful with using the IP, like anyone who owns a valuable

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IP would agree that's but to completely be dismissive of it

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is just a bit a bit odd to me. And it kind of maybe it speaks a

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little bit to who's buying these things just like sort of a

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vanity project. They don't even care about getting revenue

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stream like a revenue stream or like making returns. It's just

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like a, it's really just like a show me good that people buy.

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Yeah, I mean, I take serious issue with the word wunderkind

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in that title, right? Like, I don't know the guy, maybe he's a

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genius in other ways. But if you're if your only point of

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reference is he sold the people for 69 million bucks. I mean,

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this is a piece of art that was sold at peak hype, right to some

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moron who like thinks this is going to be worth 10 times this

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in the future. Like is it's pure luck, right? Like it was right

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place right time. So give him credit for that. But like, this

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is not a strategy. This is not a business model. This is not that

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he has no plan to actually build a business here. All he's saying

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is I'm going to do nothing and hope the value of these things

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increases, which maybe a year ago, that was the strategy in

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you know,

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June, almost July 2022. I think this is this is lunacy, right?

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Like, this just does not work anymore, that we're we're past

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the point. We have to be past the point of this greater fool

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theory, which by the way, Bill Gates, you know, said the same

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thing that I've been saying for the last year or two now.

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That, you know, we have to get past this and there has to be

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real business. And there can be we just talked about a papalii

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Like, it's silly, but people will probably buy that. And you

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know, the merchandising thing was an old Spaceballs Mel Brooks

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reference, but it works. Disney has shown it can work. Right?

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And, and, and you're right, maybe we're reading too much

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into his words, maybe he means he's only going to do quality

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partnerships and IP extensions. But I don't think that's what he

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means here. Like, I think this really is like, I'm gonna do

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nothing. We're just gonna, it's all about the punks and we're

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going to see this you know, we're going to ride this to the

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moon kind of mentality that

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has got a lot of people in trouble, and I think has

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destroyed a lot of value over the last two or three months.

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And instead should be embracing sort of how do we how do we

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extend this IP this brand? To 100 different things and

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maintain the quality? Show me that strategy right? How do we

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make great things with the crypto punks IP as opposed to

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and gotta respect the quotes below to start a new job and

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saying look, I'm not gonna do a

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one on one meetings

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NFT NYC

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I'm not gonna do anything.

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Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. And it's like this is gonna

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backfire. So interesting. We hired a guy whose background is

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you know, he was he built a digital auction shirt like maybe

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that should show in and of itself like where where there

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you go labs his mind is in terms of this whole strategy.

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Like, why not hire someone? A product leader at Disney or

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someone who's built, you know, like, like, someone who

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thematic universe stratagem and like a brand expert licensing

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expert, like someone like that. It's like, No, you hired a guy

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who ran an online auction house. What does that have to do with

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building like an IP brand?

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Well, this is why I think this comes to a head, right? This has

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to, because you've got bored apes on one side, merchandising,

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monetizing, doing brand extensions, I think we, we

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talked about a TV show or like a few episodes ago, now this eight

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papalii. And then on the other side, you've got crypto punks,

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and this guy who, you know, this is like, this is religion. This

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is not business. And, you know,

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when it's all about the brand, and okay, that's good. But like

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if you do nothing with it, and you don't sell anything around

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it, no, there's no business there. And I think those two

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cultures, those two viewpoints have to clash at some point. And

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we will, I think, I think you will see someone get ejected or

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people get ejected as a consequence, I don't think you

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can maintain two radically different strategies within the

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same company forever. So we'll be seeing which one it will be

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interesting to see which one wins out. I suspect, investors

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are going to want to see the broader merchandising not rely

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on some Yes, the greater fool Let's hope the the apes we

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bought keeps going up works in a bull market. And the people who

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own the apes are like, Well, I'm only going to own this for a

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little bit. I don't care. I'm just watching go up. I'm

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watching secondary market prices go up. I'm getting rich. You

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know, don't worry about doing anything like don't ruin the

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brand. You have a great thing. As soon as that reverses. I

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suspect it has I haven't looked at the prices, secondary market

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prices of these things, but I'm sure they're down. You know, 50%

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Plus, as soon as that happens, you start having the bag holders

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who own these things. Start saying, Okay, well, I bought

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this for a million dollars. It's now apparently worth 200 grand.

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Get me some utility for it. But in removing dividend checks, get

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me some revenue, like let's make this a thing. So I suspect this

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conversation is going to get turned around very

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interesting. It's an interesting one of those very interesting

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wants to follow to see how it plays out. Let's talk about two

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stories from the maybe the the biggest personality of all in

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the metaverse space. And that's Mark Zuckerberg himself here.

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And two stories coming out of meta this week. Let me start

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with this one. Jeff. The headline here Mark Zuckerberg

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envisions a billion people in the metaverse spending hundreds

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of dollars each. So he told CNBC is Jim Cramer that Mehta

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platforms is in a position to spend extensively on long term

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research, and that the metaverse will usher in a massive economy.

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He thinks they're gonna get a billion people doing hundreds of

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dollars of commerce. And this is a quote from Mark, each buying

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digital goods, digital content, different things to express

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themselves. So whether that's clothing for their avatar or

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different digital goods for their virtual home, or things to

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decorate their virtual conference room, utilities to be

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able to be more productive in virtual and augmented reality.

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And across the metaverse overall.

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You know, let me just put that next to let me put the two

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stories together here because I think both are interesting. Back

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to back here. The other one is, Zuckerberg details this plan to

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move your digital items across the metaverse. So what happened

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is they've rebranded Facebook pay has become meta pay, but the

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idea is to make it a wallet for the metaverse so that you can

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manage your identity, your items, your payment methods, all

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within meta and the metaverse.

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So you know, a sort of wallet and payment solution slash

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standard for the metaverse. What do you make of soccer Berg's

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prediction here, the billion people, the hundreds of dollars,

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the things they're going to do? I mean, I know it's sort of a

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big, big topic. Jeff, if he had said this a year ago, I think

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people would have probably been surprised, but at this point,

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like I've read that headline and was like, okay, or is that

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surprised? Like, I don't know if anyone's at this point,

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surprised that that's their goal, or that we expected that

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will happen. Right? Like, the question is really then becomes

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well, how long will it take? But I don't think either of us are

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wouldn't be surprised at all. If we're in the future, five, seven

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years from now, and there's a billion people who are

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interacting with the metaverse on a daily basis, and you know,

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spending hundreds of dollars. I think that's even very

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conservative. I think once you get the people in the metaverse,

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they're going to be spending way more at they'll be spending

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whatever they would normally spend in the real world

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basically in the metaverse, so I don't think that's surprising at

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all. The piece that was interesting was in the article

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they talked a bit about the Oculus, headsets and the talk

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Too little bit about how the shipments have been a bit

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disappointing after like the holiday season. They said

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shipments of headsets have failed out number shipments of

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PCs or smartphones. It's not shocking. But I do think that's

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that's the area where I feel like Mehta is going to have the

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biggest struggle where they've really tethered their whole plan

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to the quest and to VR, which I think is ultimately potentially

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going to be their downfall. As well as the fact that I just

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think the medicine brand meta, and Facebook's brand is so bad

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right now amongst consumers. Like, I just don't know if

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you're going to get the kind of adoption, even if they build the

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best technical Metaverse, which they honestly probably end up

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with, probably will end up doing just because they're investing

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so much. I don't know if they're ever going to get the adoption

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just because they feel like they have such a bad brand image. Do

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you think that's something that matters? If you think it's, if

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they build the best product, it won't matter? People will just

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get over it and use it? Or do you think actually been

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tarnished? You know, Jeff, I actually think my view on Oculus

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relative to Facebook and betta is totally different on this

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one. And that is because I actually think Oculus is is the

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greatest most possible hardware is really hard, right? It takes

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a lot of years, takes a lot of development and research. It

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takes a lot of money. And I believe Oculus Mehta with Oculus

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has at least a few year has started like I don't think

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anyone's even remotely close. You could say maybe valve with

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the index. But for the most part, Oculus is way ahead. Lower

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cost hardware, better technology more portable, all these good

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things right. And I think this is their mode because if we

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believe Oculus is going to be the on ramp for the metaverse,

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and the art is going to be the on ramp for the metaverse.

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Oculus puts Mehta in a an incredibly good position. It's a

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huge competitive advantage, etc. Right.

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I think Oculus actually will probably go down in history is

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maybe one of the best investments. In meta slash

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Facebook's history. They paid a billion dollars for Oculus. And

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if we believe there's going to be a billion people in the

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metaverse if you believe Mark Zuckerberg is number here,

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right? You're talking about a business not going to be worth a

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billion dollars. Same at a business in just an Oculus.

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That's going to be worth a trillion dollars. You're talking

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about, you know, an installed base the size of Apple iPhones,

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right? Probably a two or $3 trillion business. And so

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I really do think Oculus is the feather in the cap for meta. I

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think it's their big competitive advantage. And I also think it

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to your, again to where I disagree with the point you

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made. And I understand the concern. There's this reputation

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concern with Facebook, right. But Oculus softens that a bit,

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right, the kid who gets an Oculus for Christmas, he plays

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with it. He's playing Star Wars. He doesn't know that it's

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Facebook, he doesn't care that it's Facebook, right? It creates

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a new perception of the brand and a new face for the brand.

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And I think this is a good thing for them. But it's a good point,

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right? There is this reputational risk with Facebook.

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The question becomes that billion user number, right, does

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that. Is that plausible? Is that reasonable?

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You've got you know, how many Facebook users

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maybe 2 billion to 3 billion billion, right? So you got to

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think one out of every two, or one out of every three Facebook

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user transitions to the metaverse.

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Yeah, when you put it that way, it's a high it's a little bit of

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a high bar.

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But yeah, over the over the course of time, I definitely

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believe you know, we're super bullish that they will hit that

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note. Well, let me just take a step back. The Metaverse will

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hit that number, will it be Facebook? That I guess I'm maybe

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not as convinced as you are, but I think your points are valid in

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terms of the brand softening. I do think that if you buy an

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Oculus, you're probably not thinking about it as Facebook

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problems. You know, if you're if you're a teenager in your early

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20s You probably don't even know what Facebook is. You probably

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don't think of Instagrams product either. So that's a

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that's a fair point. And hardware is hard. So to the

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extent that they are the best currently at VR hardware that is

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a massive advantage that I guess I probably was maybe underrated

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Yeah, I mean, let's let's talk about another potential

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advantage here. And I think this story is an interesting one and

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talks about meta again. The headline here is meta and

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Microsoft team up to create Metaverse standards. Apple and

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Google sit out. The group believes open standards will

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help realize the so called Metaverse, so

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bunch of companies are forming what they're calling the

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metaverse standards forum. Meta is a founding

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member big tech names like Adobe, Microsoft and Vidya also

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founding members. But Apple and Google are not participating.

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Now the forum it says is meant to foster the development of

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open standards for the metaverse. They will explore

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where the lack of interoperability is holding back

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Metaverse deployment, and how the work of standards developing

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organizations defining an evolving needed needed standards

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may be coordinated, accelerated. You have Adobe epic, IKEA,

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Qualcomm, Sony, like a bunch of big names, all part of this

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forum. I'm curious, two things. What do you think of all these

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companies getting together to create some standards? Or at

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least trying to find some standards, Jeff, and maybe more

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interesting? What do you think of Apple and Google sitting out?

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So that was gonna sort of be my take? I definitely understand

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its part, I want to hear your opinion, because this is

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something you pounded the drum on for a while, even from really

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like episode one on it's been all about comparing the

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metaverse to the internet and how the Internet has, you know,

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created standards. And that's really what these kind of open

Unknown:

open standards, and that's how the Internet evolved. So I

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definitely want to hear your take on that. What I thought was

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the most interesting part was who's not involved, as you

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mentioned, and it's funny that it's actually the platforms that

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are the biggest on mobile, and also the ones that are charging

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these exorbitant kind of tape rates. So I just wonder if

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there's some, you know, if that plays into the reason why

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they're not jumping into these open standards, and non closed

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guard, you know, walled garden approach of this, this Metaverse

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that the others that maybe have a little bit less turf to defend

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are kind of jumping into, you know, with open arms. So maybe

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they're saying, Okay, let's, let's take a step back. We've a

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pretty good thing on mobile here, you know, with these app

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stores taking 30% Cut and no interoperability, like why don't

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we just take a take a breather before we jump into?

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I mean, you know what I love about the story, because we

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didn't discuss this pre show that I knew you were gonna have

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a totally different take on the why Apple and Google set out

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like I there's probably like four or five different reasons

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we could come up with. Right. And I think that's an

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interesting one. I hadn't thought of that. But yeah, I

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mean, they want to protect their walled gardens here. And any

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kind of open standards may be bad for business in their mind.

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To the standards point, yes, I've been beating the drum about

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it. I think it's really just a question of, once you've seen

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enough tech lifecycles like a different different technology

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metas if you want to call them come and go.

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The patterns are always the same, right? And new,

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groundbreaking technologies, revolutionary technologies,

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standards. I think you have to it was inevitable that it had to

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get there for everyone to succeed for the vision of a true

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capital and Metaverse to be realized. So I applaud this. I

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think this had to happen. I'm happy it's happening. I think I

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called it but Mehta was going to be leading the way on this. And

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I think we will see great things from this group of companies in

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terms of laying the groundwork for what will eventually be the

Unknown:

capital and metaverse.

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Well, so my tinfoil hat theory came from, like my own

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perspective, which is, I believe the metaverse gets built,

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AI or evolves, not necessarily from a game, but from gaming

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culture, gaming minds, gaming themes, right? Like the

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metaverse truly is just a superset of gaming, or maybe

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even a subset of gaming, if you want to call it that, right like

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gaming. And the metaverse are intimately linked in my mind and

Unknown:

cannot be separated. And the two companies that sat out in my

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mind, are the two big tech companies today that just don't

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get gaming. They don't get it. Right. Google has tried and

Unknown:

failed miserably. Apple. I mean, you could argue they've sort of

Unknown:

tried but definitely not. Not.

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Not like in sort of, in line with their resources and their

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capabilities, right. They could be doing way more. And I think

Unknown:

it's to companies that don't have gaming cultures within

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them. Like what with like, if you look at it, it's it's just

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not their bread and butter. And it's not an area they

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understand. And so I'm not surprised that they probably

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won't really understand the metaverse either. I think it

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just follows that they won't and they will be laggards in that

Unknown:

Metaverse discussion now could they catch up? Sure, right. Like

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Apple's rumored goggles could be groundbreaking and everyone

Unknown:

wants them but I'm very skeptical because I don't think

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they understand

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Then gaming, either one of them all that well. And this is why

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they sit out. That's my that's my tinfoil hat theory. That's

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fair. I think that makes sense.

Unknown:

Yeah, it's an interesting one I like I said, I really hope, I

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really hope it pans out to them building something, you know,

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really cool. On top of whatever standards they create here.

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Let's, let's finish on one last article here, Jeff, and that is,

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this is cool. We talked about hardware in the context of

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Oculus. Here's another piece of hardware. And this is solena

Unknown:

Labs building a web three mobile phone. So the backers of the

Unknown:

Solana blockchain said the devices will cost around $1,000

Unknown:

be available for delivery in early 2023.

Unknown:

The phone is going to be called saga, it's an Android handset.

Unknown:

It's a modified ozone handset. I don't know that the the probably

Unknown:

no Diem, I guess, with specialty crypto wallet functions. And the

Unknown:

Selenium mobile stack Software Development Kit for web three

Unknown:

programs. Cost $1,000, like I said, be available early 2023.

Unknown:

It's their biggest bet yet on mobile focus growth. It's going

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to feature a web three decentralized App Store,

Unknown:

integrated Solana pay for on chain payments, a mobile wallet

Unknown:

adapter, like all about mobile, and crypto mobile and mobile web

Unknown:

three games, I guess is the vision here, all in sort of one

Unknown:

handset you could buy now. I'm not sure if this is more for

Unknown:

developers or more for end users. But what do you think

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Jeff, of the Solana mobile phone here saga? The first thing I

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literally thought was this, this is this is Google stadia for

Unknown:

phones. And it's like it's a problem solution. It's a tech

Unknown:

solution in search of a problem. Like, maybe it's a little

Unknown:

facetious, because I do think the mobile, the current mobile

Unknown:

ecosystem is really not optimized for like crypto

Unknown:

gaming, stuff like that, just because the walled gardens that

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Apple will have kind of like what we just talked about, you

Unknown:

can't do pain, you can't really do crypto payments on those app

Unknown:

stores.

Unknown:

But I would have rather someone come up with a software solution

Unknown:

within that ecosystem that made it less clunky than the current

Unknown:

version, but didn't include having to buy a whole new phone,

Unknown:

I just do not fundamentally believe there's enough people

Unknown:

out there that you're gonna get enough adoption, that this is

Unknown:

gonna get critical mass, like, I just don't believe they're gonna

Unknown:

create a good enough product from a hardware device

Unknown:

standpoint. And then also an application standpoint, you will

Unknown:

have on sure if a bunch of crypto developers go to apps for

Unknown:

this, but I just, I find it hard to believe that you're going to,

Unknown:

you're going to see a massive adoption from a developer

Unknown:

perspective of this phone, because I just don't think

Unknown:

you'll see enough people buying. Wow. So I'm not super bullish on

Unknown:

it. But I do think it's interesting when the to actually

Unknown:

follow up is not something that I had expected opposite from

Unknown:

from

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what do you think?

Unknown:

I'm gonna call it something but I think crypto companies, for

Unknown:

better or for worse, because you could say, and it's a good

Unknown:

thing, it's, it can also be a bad thing. In this case, I think

Unknown:

it's a bad thing. Where, because everything has been rah rah

Unknown:

crypto for the last two years or three years like and, you know,

Unknown:

everything's up into the right and, and everyone's gotten

Unknown:

massively wealthy, and there's billions being thrown at this

Unknown:

like that, you tend to develop a bit of a god complex, right? And

Unknown:

you start to just assume you can do everything. Right. And we've

Unknown:

talked about this before, like, every every blockchain based

Unknown:

game pitch deck that I see is like, this is our token. And by

Unknown:

the way, we're gonna make a great game. And then this is

Unknown:

like, like, okay, but you just assumed like the really hardest

Unknown:

part and like, assuming you can make a phone, which is a piece

Unknown:

of hardware, which is really hard. And this is not going to

Unknown:

be a great phone, right? It's some, probably some Chinese ODM,

Unknown:

I don't know this company that is just going to be a plastic

Unknown:

and gore glass slab. That's no different than any other phone.

Unknown:

And to your point, you don't if you don't reach critical mass,

Unknown:

what is the point of this whole exercise other than wasting

Unknown:

zillions of dollars developing your own phone? When you're

Unknown:

right. And I'm totally in agreement with you here that all

Unknown:

that development effort should have been on? How do we crack

Unknown:

the existing platforms and leverage the existing

Unknown:

distribution and make, you know, grandma's iPhone, good enough to

Unknown:

use to do all the things that the Solana phone can do?

Unknown:

That's the bigger price. And so I don't know why you go after

Unknown:

the small price that's exceedingly difficult, unless

Unknown:

you make the assumption that it's not that hard. Right. And

Unknown:

that's a row

Unknown:

wrong assumption. It's an assumption that comes from a god

Unknown:

complex. I think it's just an also a misunderstanding of

Unknown:

ecosystem. Like, I don't think there's that many consumers that

Unknown:

are yearning so much to use crypto technology that they're

Unknown:

going to buy a whole phone to be able to do it. The benefit of

Unknown:

crypto

Unknown:

very small group, but the benefit of crypto technology is

Unknown:

one, it's all happening in the background. So if there ever got

Unknown:

to a point where the use case was so great, that there was

Unknown:

enough consumers that really yearn for this, that they were

Unknown:

willing to go switch their smartphone, which is an absolute

Unknown:

pain in the neck, that nobody wants to do you know, what Apple

Unknown:

and Google are gonna do, they're gonna say, Oh, guess what, with

Unknown:

Apple Pay, you can now use crypto, and then your, your

Unknown:

phone is dead. Second, they decide to do that. So as soon as

Unknown:

you find the killer app, they're just gonna come and steal

Unknown:

everything like, Oh, we're losing a little bit of market

Unknown:

share, guess what we now enabled crypto payments, boom, ever.

Unknown:

You're got your install base is that, like,

Unknown:

it's so insightful? And I think so funny. You say that, because

Unknown:

I read an article just the other day that every time Apple does

Unknown:

like their, their core, like their twice a year, you know,

Unknown:

like where they show off the new hardware. Like at their

Unknown:

worldwide developer conference, they show off new features in

Unknown:

their operating systems, that I read this article that said,

Unknown:

every worldwide developer conference, when they announce a

Unknown:

feature 1000 startups go out of business.

Unknown:

And you're right.

Unknown:

They do figure out some killer app for this that everyone

Unknown:

wants, while you already have how many billion iPhones like

Unknown:

out in the world, you just added as a feature in the next version

Unknown:

of iOS. And I mean, I don't know. Maybe that's the point

Unknown:

though. Maybe they want to spur, Google and Apple to do

Unknown:

something. Maybe that's an expensive.

Unknown:

Like, that's an expensive way of doing it. So

Unknown:

like that was this was a fun episode.

Unknown:

That is the end though. I will say. Don't forget, guys. This

Unknown:

podcast drops every single week. So share it with a friend share

Unknown:

it with a colleague, tell everyone about it. Go check out

Unknown:

our brother slash sister podcast if you want to call it met a

Unknown:

woman and also business of esports if you're not subscribed

Unknown:

to those Jeff's on business of esports also. And so if you love

Unknown:

the juice, you can't get enough of the juice at Jeff Cohen 23 Go

Unknown:

subscribe to business of esports as well if you found this here.

Unknown:

But we really appreciate you guys tuning in every week. We'll

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leave that Review share with a friend. Don't forget the future

Unknown:

is fun. We'll see you guys next week. Thanks for joining us here

Unknown:

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Unknown:

everywhere you get your podcasts, leave a five star

Unknown:

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Unknown:

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Unknown:

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Unknown:

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About the Podcast

META Business
From the metaverse to the boardroom...
Meta Business tackles the most important Metaverse industry news. Business experts dissect and discuss all of the hottest topics and happenings, from a unique C-suite perspective.

About your host

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Paul Dawalibi