3. Ubisoft NFT Gaming, Metaverse Weddings, Metaverse Skeptics
In this episode, Ubisoft Quartz platform allows users to earn NFTs in AAA games, negative feedback causes Ubisoft to delist its Ubisoft Quartz announcement video, weddings and other life events move to the metaverse, uninformed journalists question the metaverse, and so much more!
Transcript
From the boardroom to the metaverse, this is the meta business podcast. I Paul Dawalibi. The
Unknown:master of the metaverse will lead you through the biggest business stories in the metaverse. Join us
Unknown:as we break down the news and trends from the C suite lens, bringing you insights, analysis and
Unknown:discussion that you can't find anywhere else. Every single week. Welcome to metta business.
Unknown:Welcome to episode three of the metta business podcast. I am Paul Dawalibi, Master of the
Unknown:metaverse I'm joined today by my friend, my co host, Jeff the juice Cohen. Jeff, how's it going?
Unknown:How you doing this week? Hey, Paul. I'm doing well. I'm excited to get in here week three, you
Unknown:know, we're getting the kinks out. I think we're hitting the ground running. I'm excited to jump
Unknown:in. well oiled machine.
Unknown:Yeah. I apologize for my very, my very kind of kitschy backdrop green screen. Here I am I am not
Unknown:in our studio. I'm not at home even. And so this is this is as good and as Metaverse see as you're
Unknown:going to get right. You're going to have to deal with this very Metaverse the background, although
Unknown:I don't know why neon blue and pink is like metaphor. Would you say it almost feels like we're
Unknown:in the metaverse currently, you know this. This might be the metaverse this. Well, at least the
Unknown:folks that PC Gamer might agree with you which we will get to because there was an interesting
Unknown:article that they wrote calling the metaverse bullshit,
Unknown:which I don't agree with. And I'm pretty sure you don't agree with but you calling this this call
Unknown:here. Metaverse might agree. We'll get into that one. But I I don't clearly don't agree with it. I
Unknown:think I would get thrown off the podcast here if I did. But I think he makes some good points wrapped
Unknown:around a lot of bluster and and click Beatty language, but I think we'll get into donner, if
Unknown:that's the first topic but we can get into that one later. Now let's start with which I think is
Unknown:the big kind of business. Metaverse news this week, because it was it was one of the biggest
Unknown:gaming companies in the world, sort of making a pretty big announcement here. And I'll put this up
Unknown:on screen here so you can see it the headline is, and this was the directly from the press release
Unknown:from Ubisoft, it says introducing Ubisoft courts, the first platform for playable and energy
Unknown:efficient NF T's in triple A games. Now, the article goes on to say that
Unknown:Ubisoft quartz is a new platform for players to acquire digits. The first NF T's playable in a
Unknown:triple A game running on energy efficient technology. They're going to launch in beta with
Unknown:Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon breakpoint. And digits will be released as part of limited editions, each
Unknown:composed of a fixed number of cosmetic items.
Unknown:Now the press release goes on to explain how digits create sort of more value because they're
Unknown:unique. They're unique collectible that feature their own serial number that can be seen in game.
Unknown:They're playable. So there's active utility value. And each digit comes with a certificate of
Unknown:ownership stored on blockchain
Unknown:independent from Ubisoft, and so it's not bound to your game inventory. They can put it according to
Unknown:this press release players can be put these items for sale on third party platforms outside of the
Unknown:Ubisoft ecosystem. So Ubisoft sort of following through here. Right. Right, Jeff, like on what
Unknown:they said they were gonna do. I will say Yeah, before we dive into what we think about the Yeah,
Unknown:this it's we do have to give a lot of credit to Ubisoft. I mean, I think a lot of companies on
Unknown:their recent earnings calls, give lip service to NF T's in games, especially the triple A
Unknown:publishers kind of were like, well, that sounds like an interesting idea that we're looking at,
Unknown:but Ubisoft said that and then kind of follow through very quickly, so I have to give them a ton
Unknown:of credit. Clearly they had been kind of having this in the works for a while. And I would know
Unknown:you know, this isn't the first time Ubisoft has been pretty forward thinking in terms of adopting
Unknown:new platforms, new technology, they were early to the switch they were early to stadia recipes. You
Unknown:know, they they early on subscription so that this is kind of a trend with Ubisoft that they do kind
Unknown:of try to adopt new technologies. So So kudos to them, kind of just wanted to throw that out there
Unknown:first. No, it's a good point, right? That because literally every gaming company said they were
Unknown:going to do something Metaverse related, right. Literally every single one.
Unknown:Ubisoft here sort of really following through in a very tangible way. Right. This is something that
Unknown:they're launching. They've named a specific game. They have a specific date. It's December 9. So by
Unknown:the time you guys listen to this or watch this, it'll already be out.
Unknown:Actually, depending where you are, because it comes out later in some countries but fundamental
Unknown:they're putting their money where their mouth is here. And they're working, by the way with tezos
Unknown:worth mentioning
Unknown:for their proof of stake network, and you know, this is this is the tech the blockchain underlying
Unknown:it. Right. So, which I thought was interesting. It's not one you typically hear. It's not one of
Unknown:the more the most common ones. I don't think, well, pessoa says a company, I would say has had a
Unknown:pretty big, you know, has made a big splash. They sponsor f1. Now, right, like, yeah, they're
Unknown:they're definitely making waves in the space. I guess the question is, do you like this? Right? Is
Unknown:this enough from Ubisoft? To back up what they said they were gonna do? Is this a good first
Unknown:step? You know, do you see business advantages here? Like, will they make more money on top on
Unknown:Ghost Recon? I think it's a good start. I mean, the question that I was going to kind of put I
Unknown:hate to answer a question with a question. But I'm curious what your thoughts are, that they started
Unknown:with a game that's already out there that already has a player base? I think I kind of went back and
Unknown:forth. I think it probably is good. Because one of the critiques we've always had with Blockchain
Unknown:games so far is that they kind of put the blockchain part before the games part and they
Unknown:don't make a game. That's fun. Now, people who follow Ubisoft or played Ghost Recon breakpoint
Unknown:might make a joke that well, Ghost Recon breakpoint wasn't very fun to begin with. But at
Unknown:least it's a game that they're adding NF T's to which I kind of commend them for that. But then,
Unknown:does that alienate the fan base? And does it kind of like, are you risking throwing this in too late
Unknown:to kind of an economy that's already working?
Unknown:You know, would it have been better to start with a new experience that something that's unique to
Unknown:the blockchain, rather than just throwing this into a game that already exists? I don't know if
Unknown:you have any thoughts on that?
Unknown:I mean, doesn't it kind of prove the short term point? I think that I and I think you also have
Unknown:been making, which is blockchain and NF T's as they intersect gaming can't just be for the sake
Unknown:of calling it a blockchain game or an NFT game, right? There has to be some improvement or benefit
Unknown:to the game and gamer in some way. For this to be really interesting in my mind, what I what I like
Unknown:here is what I like about them using an existing game is it sort of forces them to think about how
Unknown:does this make the game better, right? Because it's not just enough to say, we're launching an
Unknown:NFT game and it could be the crappiest most unfun game ever. Right? But but because, you know, it's
Unknown:uh, they're calling it an NFT game or a blockchain based game, like, it'll get a bunch of attention
Unknown:here. They're taking an existing game, whether you like the game or not, you think the game is good
Unknown:or not, is not sort of material in my mind, right? And saying, Look, we can make it better by
Unknown:fill in the blank. Now where I'm unclear is did they fill in the blank there? Well enough to make
Unknown:this a compelling value proposition for the gamer and therefore I think this is going to make money.
Unknown:Right? Are people going to buy more cosmetics in Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon as a consequence of this
Unknown:announcement? And like if you were the analyst covering Ubisoft, do you? Do you increase your
Unknown:projections for this game for this title? Do you you know, like no, I don't think so. I mean, one
Unknown:I'd be curious to know how big that player base is now cuz I know had a very, very tough launch. I do
Unknown:think this is very much them just doing a test and kind of getting some data so I'm not I don't think
Unknown:it's gonna have a very material business impact on Ubisoft but I do think it's a good idea for them
Unknown:to be trying to things that I think are interesting that I kind of noted. One maybe not as
Unknown:surprising as the other first that these are cosmetic only, which maybe that's not shocking,
Unknown:because they're basically microtransactions but I do think with with played earn it, a lot of these
Unknown:things can become play to win.
Unknown:Or pay to win. Sorry, just given one of the benefits, times with these things is kind of the
Unknown:uniqueness. I think if there's a power element to it, like, Hey, I got the best gun in the game, and
Unknown:there's only five of them, and I can now be better because I have this gun. I think that adds a lot
Unknown:of value. So I think that creates creates a lot of problems as well. But I do think that's probably
Unknown:where things will eventually head where there will be some power power element to these things. I
Unknown:don't know if you did too little and not interesting in your mind. It's too little. It's
Unknown:interesting, but too little. The other thing I was gonna mention the mentally it's no different than
Unknown:just a microtransaction and a cosmetic right other than the fact that you could potentially go sell
Unknown:it on a third party site which doesn't really exist yet. Right? And there's no it's Are they
Unknown:not? Is it not on any exchanges yet? I don't actually I don't know. But I don't I don't I guess
Unknown:the question is like, is there going to be resale value in these cosmetics? Well, no, that was one
Unknown:thing I was saying when I was looking at the announcement I was like What should I almost was
Unknown:looking at buying like the tezos coins cuz I was like something here. This is this is a first right
Unknown:this is a unique first in a triple A I was like
Unknown:Maybe you do want to buy one of these because, again, there's only one first ever. So there could
Unknown:be some value in owning the first sort of triple A, you know, NFT. Same way there's, you know, you
Unknown:made the first NFT and esports. And now that's worth, you know, millions.
Unknown:I just I want to I want to introduce here the second story, which is totally right. before we,
Unknown:before I mentioned that wanted to get your opinion, I noticed they made it 18 Enough. So you
Unknown:could only buy this if you're 18 and up. I don't Is that the same thing? And XE and other
Unknown:blockchain games? Is that because of some gambling, like, Why do you make? Why do you think
Unknown:that is the case? And is that going to be the case moving forward for all blockchain games? Because
Unknown:that clearly limits the TAM, you know, if you're, if you're kind of saying, hey, only teen up can
Unknown:purchase these things. Now, I know xe infinity does have an 18 plus age rating. I don't know if
Unknown:they like if they age check you though, right? Like, what do you have to declare? To say I am 18?
Unknown:But let's do that. Right? It does limit some people if they don't want to lie. The reality is
Unknown:it's all self. Right? Like, no one's asking, as far as I know, not actually infinity not anywhere
Unknown:yet is asking you to give your driver's license or like birth certificate or something. So there's no
Unknown:age verification, there's a self reported age check. And at that point, like, is it really
Unknown:limiting anyone? It feels more like all these companies, mostly just covering, covering their
Unknown:behinds from a legal liability standpoint? Right. Like, well, they reported a team. So it's not our
Unknown:issue. It's not our problem.
Unknown:But yeah, it's a good point. And and I think as as regulation, or potentially comes into the space,
Unknown:potentially, right, those become bigger and bigger issues. And I think how companies act early on,
Unknown:will have some bearing on on the longer term sort of viability of these platforms. Now, I think what
Unknown:was most interesting about this story and you're the one that picked up on this and I love this is
Unknown:one day after, literally one day after that press release came out. This story came up and and I'll
Unknown:read the headline here. Ubisoft built the lists its NFT announcement, as YouTube dislikes top
Unknown:22,000 Fewer than 5% of viewers like the video explaining the Ubisoft courts platform. That's the
Unknown:name of the platform we just discussed. And it says here Ubisoft has de listed its announced
Unknown:trailer for its Ubisoft courts platform, following overwhelming backlash that saw it receiving a
Unknown:dislike to like ratio of around 22.
Unknown:To 800, word likes 15,466 dislikes. It was delisted
Unknown:and and so the reaction from call it fans or people who follow Ubisoft
Unknown:I mean, Jeff, is it safe to say that the reaction was overwhelmingly negative, overwhelming,
Unknown:negative and very surprised, like I don't know, if you feel the same way as I do like this, to me,
Unknown:was incredibly surprising. And maybe this is a moment where we need to like take a step back, you
Unknown:know, see the forest from the trees or whatever that the expression is, you know, and recognize
Unknown:that the the portion of people who are diving really deep into these blockchain games and even
Unknown:just crypto it's still so early where it's such a small percentage of people and a lot of the
Unknown:broader gaming community in the broader you know, world looks at these still as sort of scammy kind
Unknown:of the stuff we talked about in the last episode with with Phil Spencer, kind of still looks at
Unknown:these and says, Hey, this is a cash grab. I'm I'm maybe getting scammed in some way. And part of
Unknown:that might be Ubisoft's reputation a little bit and kind of this game specific reputation with
Unknown:some microtransactions issues when it first came out. But I do think I am a little bit surprised
Unknown:that it seems the community viewed this as as a little bit of a cash grab and maybe just them
Unknown:throwing in this this buzzword or this mechanic for no reason, though, I am surprised because I
Unknown:would have thought that there would have been more intersection between gamers and kind of people who
Unknown:are crypto enthusiast and I would have thought the community of this game would have gotten excited
Unknown:being the first kind of triple A game to implement this. So this this one is a surprise to me. And
Unknown:this is what you know i I'm curious like the some of the theories you've got I think the one you
Unknown:mentioned around Ubisoft, you know, on our sister podcast, you're on the business of esports live
Unknown:stream we had a discussion around there was this poll done and Ubisoft was the most hated gaming
Unknown:brand on Twitter or whatever right like Ubisoft has challenges with their brand as it relates to
Unknown:gamers. I don't know why so much hate around this announcement though, right? Like, fundamentally it
Unknown:doesn't. It has no bearing or effect on players of the game really right. Like they lose nothing. And
Unknown:so you don't want to participate. It's not like it became pay to win like, you know, God forbid they
Unknown:had done that.
Unknown:like I had mentioned before they then they really would have gotten backlash, like, you don't have
Unknown:to participate this in this at all. It's like if you want to buy this cosmetic buy, if not, don't
Unknown:say I'm surprised. This is why I don't I don't fully understand the backlash. And, and so as I'm,
Unknown:you know, thinking about this, one of the theories is it just, is it already fatigue around the
Unknown:buzzword, right? Like, is it? Is it feeling like Ubisoft? Or do players feel like Ubisoft is trying
Unknown:to cash in in some way? And they don't spend the time to sort of understand what, what Ubisoft
Unknown:actually doing here? Is it that Ubisoft didn't communicate this well, in terms of the benefits to
Unknown:the player and how it's basically optional, or, you know, what I mean? Like, where's the failure,
Unknown:the business failure here, it's, it's actually it's 100% fascinating because it this kind of
Unknown:visceral sort of dislike, this isn't neutral. This is, you know, 9520 to one disliked to like, you
Unknown:don't see that often.
Unknown:Don't be fascinated to see some market research. Like, I do wonder if maybe blockchain gaming has
Unknown:gotten this stigma from the broader gaming community, like, hey, these guys aren't
Unknown:kind of approaching it the right way, almost like when I hate the I know, you're gonna kill me by
Unknown:bringing this up, but kind of the authenticity word that gets thrown around in esports. A lot
Unknown:like when a sponsor or even in gaming more broadly, if a sponsor or an entity comes into the
Unknown:ecosystem, and isn't authentic or seem to be sort of paying their dues or kind of approach in the
Unknown:right way. They get ostracized, like Have we gotten to the point maybe where the broader gaming
Unknown:community views blockchain gaming and crypto as that as sort of like, well, that's not gaming.
Unknown:They're the outsiders. They're just trying to scam us. I don't that's a really broad sweeping
Unknown:statement. I don't think we should feel comfortable making just this. But it would be
Unknown:fascinating if someone like a YouGov would would would do some sort of consumer insight around kind
Unknown:of gamers just perception of blockchain and and kind of these these gaming experiences. You know,
Unknown:I'm curious if you're at Activision Blizzard. And you see this happened, right? Or you're at EA and
Unknown:you see this happen? Do you? Do you become a little gun shy in terms of your own? Blockchain
Unknown:slash NFT, slash sort of Metaverse related announcements, like, do you sort of step back and
Unknown:go? Maybe we should wait. Maybe we should see how this plays out a bit more? Or do you go hey, this
Unknown:is just Ubisoft. No one likes Ubisoft. Like, we're still going to go ahead with our plans. Right.
Unknown:Like, yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely a data point that you would look at, I don't think you
Unknown:scrape, you know, scrap your plans. Just on this one data point. There's a clear clear that bigger
Unknown:picture and a lot more data to look at. But I do think it's something that you take pause. Because
Unknown:if the reaction is this negative, you the worst thing you want to do in one of these games, that
Unknown:you have a large active player base that you're effectively monetizing really well for the long
Unknown:term is alienate them and get people to leave the game because you introduced a new mechanic that
Unknown:they didn't want. So I do think particularly for a game, you know, if we're talking about a game like
Unknown:Feefo, or Grand Theft Auto, things that are Call of Duty games that are literally billion dollar
Unknown:cash cows, yeah, you're going to think long and hard if now you you know, you're seeing this kind
Unknown:of visceral negative reaction, for sure.
Unknown:Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out, right? Because the person who takes the first
Unknown:step sometimes takes the most risk, right? Like, I never try and read into this too much. Because
Unknown:anytime you're breaking new ground, you're gonna have haters, you're gonna have people who just
Unknown:don't like change of any kind, right? Like, to me, I think that's a big part of this. And you
Unknown:compound that with Ubisoft, sort of, not so great reputation, and you get this perfect storm of
Unknown:dislikes on YouTube. I also understand I guess why YouTube wants to remove the dislike button
Unknown:for moments like this. But anyways, let's let's move on. I want to I want to touch on a different
Unknown:story here, Jeff. And that is, and this one's a definitely a rabbit hole that I'm sure we will go
Unknown:down over and over on this podcast, but it's a great way to sort of introduce the idea. And and
Unknown:this is from the New York Times, so definitely mainstream media here, which I love. They're
Unknown:talking about the metaverse and the headline here is getting married in the metaverse. The sub
Unknown:headline says one couples recent nuptials, in the virtual world known as the metaverse showcase the
Unknown:possibilities of having a wedding unfettered by the bounds of reality. The that goes on to say
Unknown:that, you know, people are having zoom weddings, people are getting married and have always, for a
Unknown:while now been getting married in games like World of Warcraft, Animal Crossing, etc. But one
Unknown:particular section here I really liked they talked about how one company creates digital planning
Unknown:tools for weddings. They're investing in the metaverse by creating virtual versions of real
Unknown:world event spaces like the Plaza Hotel in New York.
Unknown:So if you want to do something like crazy and wild in the metaverse, you can write you can go have
Unknown:the crazy over the top wedding at the Plaza Hotel, which I think is interesting.
Unknown:The big question I have for you is, you know, how quickly do you think we'll see, right? The wedding
Unknown:business is huge, multi billion dollar industry, right? People spend lots of money on their
Unknown:weddings. How quickly do you think we'll see traditional industry sort of move into the
Unknown:metaverse in some way? Transition, you know, into more digital offerings? And what do you think the
Unknown:reception will be from customers? Like, are we going to see 1% of weddings? For example, go into
Unknown:the metaverse are we going to see 20%? Probably 1% of 1%. You know, it will take time just like with
Unknown:any adoption of technology. I mean, I'm just I'm kind of laughing because I'm imagining like
Unknown:grandparents and great grandparents like trying to figure out how to get into the metaverse. Like,
Unknown:that's a problem that eventually is going to have to get fixed. But it might get fixed by literally
Unknown:us aging up to be those grandparents and great grandparents because, you know, it's it's a hard
Unknown:barrier to imagine them having to figure it out. They can't even figure out FaceTime like it's
Unknown:gonna be hard for them to figure out Roblox and or whatever Metaverse you're talking about. But from
Unknown:a broader picture. You know, zooming up the wedding industry, I do think you know, you're
Unknown:seeing a large set and you are going to continue to see large sections of the economy that is
Unknown:currently in the the IRL world shift into the digital world. And you'll have kind of
Unknown:representations of similar things like, clearly there's been a lot of talk recently about concerts
Unknown:in the metaverse that he just recently, for a couple years now, concerts in digital spaces, and
Unknown:a lot of artists have had a lot of success with that. So just having these events in digital
Unknown:worlds, I think you're going to see big swaths of different industries move in their weddings is an
Unknown:interesting one. I mean, part of me thinks like that would be something like that might be unless
Unknown:you're an early adopter, like one of the later things to move just because your wedding is such a
Unknown:special day for people.
Unknown:You know, I'll say myself included, oh, my wife, oh, go away. But you know, so it's one of those
Unknown:things where I imagine that's the thing where you're gonna want people to come together sort of
Unknown:in in real life.
Unknown:But you know, but there are also limitations to the real life where we saw clearly during COVID,
Unknown:like, that was the only way you could get married. If you're spread out or costs, it's a lot more
Unknown:cost effective. So I can see, you can convince me of a lot of the positives of a virtual wedding. I
Unknown:just think it's gonna take some time to get significant adoption. I'm curious what you think
Unknown:of the following thesis. And this is totally off the cuff. I actually didn't I didn't think about
Unknown:this before. But like, will we see sort of cannibalization of industries and sort of real
Unknown:life? Things right by the metaverse in areas where the price tags are the highest like, but part of
Unknown:me thinks that where you have very high price tags, this is maybe the most ripe for sort of a
Unknown:Metaverse equivalent, right, like sim racing is one. I had a great conversation today with someone
Unknown:about sim racing, right? where not everyone can afford to race a Ferrari, right. But a lot of
Unknown:people can afford to have a SIM rig and a VR headset and get you know, 90% of the experience.
Unknown:Not everyone can afford to get married at the Plaza Hotel. But the cost of doing that in the
Unknown:metaverse once you've built that, you know, Plaza model to be able to put you know, people into it
Unknown:is not that costly, right? So in some ways it it democratizes these very high end kind of out of
Unknown:reach experiences. And I don't know if you think like so the thesis I want to put forward is maybe
Unknown:the most expensive things are the first that will get sort of Metaverse, equivalents do so I think
Unknown:that's a really interesting thought and could very well be right. My only pushback is is more from an
Unknown:economic standpoint than a Metaverse and gaming standpoint, where it's like, a lot of these
Unknown:experiences and events are probably, you know, sought after because they're expensive, right.
Unknown:They like the term Veblen good like it's like almost like, it's it has, there's more demand for
Unknown:because it's expensive, like everyone wants to get married at the Plaza because only like 50 people a
Unknown:year can get married at the Plaza. It's just the building. Like it's not that special, you know,
Unknown:other than the fact that you can't get married there unless you are a billionaire guy. So that's
Unknown:my only question of have to kind of push back on Earth thesis is like, are those experiences so
Unknown:special and sought after? Because they're, they're sort of scarce? And by putting them into the
Unknown:metaverse, like if you could get married at the virtual Plaza or like the virtual, I don't know.
Unknown:Something even more crazy like you're floating through space like that would probably be
Unknown:interesting.
Unknown:The bounding ourselves by real life experiences may not be the best business model
Unknown:Yeah.
Unknown:All right. Let's look, I think it's fascinating. I want to I want it to be a topic we revisit
Unknown:regularly like, the effect of the metaverse on other industries, right? Because to me, that's,
Unknown:that's the exciting piece of this whole thing, which is, as the as the metaverse sort of industry
Unknown:grows, what are what is it swallowing? Right, like what is getting converted to digital experiences
Unknown:versus real life? And it'll be interesting to see which industries fall first, right? Is it?
Unknown:Is it it's a great point. And it's also really important for investors, you know, people who are
Unknown:listening to this kind of thinking about where, you know, maybe to make money investing in this
Unknown:space. Obviously, there's some pretty clear Metaverse plays that we've talked about, and we
Unknown:will talk about all the time on this podcast, but kind of those second derivative, hey, well, who is
Unknown:the metaverse gonna hurt? sort of thing? Or? Or maybe who is a Jason that you wouldn't think of as
Unknown:a Metaverse play, but kind of touches it because of some tangential reason. I think that's actually
Unknown:really interesting to come back to. So I want to I want to end You know, we have we have we have a
Unknown:bunch of stuff. But I want to end this episode, Jeff on on the article we teased at the beginning
Unknown:here, and that's from PC gamer. And the headline here was total clickbait right. But just for the
Unknown:record, I think this author is completely wrong. I think they don't know what they're talking about.
Unknown:I'm happy to debate them at any time.
Unknown:But but they're totally wrong about this. This is total clickbait. The headline here is the meta
Unknown:versus bullshit. And the sub headline says you're not losing your mind. It really does just sound
Unknown:like a worse version of the internet. And and he makes some points. I'll I don't know if you wanted
Unknown:to touch on specific ones here, Jeff. But I'll just mention some of them. You can mention there's
Unknown:a couple that I wanted to say where I thought were actually decent criticisms of and one in
Unknown:particular, and then really,
Unknown:I don't know if you scroll down. Well, let me just mention this one. So he said you should because it
Unknown:already exists, and it's called the internet. That's his first argument. The second argument is
Unknown:the metaverse is bullshit, because tech moguls miss the part where Cyberpunk is dystopian. And
Unknown:the third. The third criticism he has is the metaverse is bullshit, because it's promised cross
Unknown:compatibility doesn't actually work. And then fourth, he says the metaverse is bullshit, because
Unknown:no one can actually explain why it's better. So those are the four points he makes. And I'm
Unknown:curious where you thought some of them had merit and where you thought some of them? Yeah, so the
Unknown:one and I think those headlines don't, those are a little bit click Beatty, I think there's a couple
Unknown:more nuanced points that he makes, sort of throughout that were maybe a little bit better.
Unknown:But the one that I think is the best point that I want to probably dive into the most is really the
Unknown:the issue of interoperability. Were kind of the metaverse and what the metaverse is today were
Unknown:kind of melds with Blockchain is this concept where you get ownership of the items you have in
Unknown:game, and then the blockchain allows you to buy and sell them. So you own it, you could sell it.
Unknown:Once, you know, let's say you were playing the game, you decided to stop playing the game, you
Unknown:could sell your item, which is positive, there's definitely a benefit. But what sort of the promise
Unknown:of the future is this interoperability where it's Hey, I bought a gun in Call of Duty, I want to go
Unknown:play Battlefield, I can bring my gun because I spent all this money in Call of Duty upgrading it,
Unknown:buying it building it, I can go bring it to Battlefield. That feud. That world does not exist
Unknown:currently. And I think there are a lot of challenges to how that world will exist in the
Unknown:future given. You know, they're separate companies built on separate engines. very foundational
Unknown:thing. So I think that is an interesting point that he makes that it's important to sort of
Unknown:figure out
Unknown:Yeah, I can guarantee you the author here was born
Unknown:after you know, after the year 2000, most likely or like mid to late 90s. Because fundamentally, I
Unknown:think he doesn't understand how the Internet itself evolved, right? He he says all the it's no
Unknown:Metaverse is no different than the internet. Well, the reality is I think for even for the metaverse,
Unknown:as exciting as it is, there are still technology hurdles that haven't been solved, right. So he
Unknown:says it's bullshit, because it's promised cross compatibility doesn't actually work. Well, I mean,
Unknown:how can you say that right? And literally, no one has yet proposed any kind of standards, right?
Unknown:It's like saying in, you know, the 1970s that the Internet doesn't work because there's no cross
Unknown:compatibility? Well, that's not fair. Because at some point, people got together and agreed that
Unknown:you know, TCP IP and HTML and some of these standards, were going to be the foundations and
Unknown:and built on top of that, and I think as this industry evolves, similar things are going to
Unknown:happen. So like, to me that's that's such a weak argument that just because it doesn't exist today,
Unknown:doesn't mean it won't exist ever. Right? I think for this to for the promise of the metaverse to
Unknown:come true.
Unknown:Cross compatibility will have to be a thing. And I believe we will solve it because it's to
Unknown:everyone's benefit to your point, right? Yeah. You know, the argument he makes about tech moguls miss
Unknown:the part where Cyberpunk is dystopian I mean, that's such a fluff argument, right? Like, in some
Unknown:ways the metaverse is going to be dystopian, because Cyberpunk is dystopian, like, I could
Unknown:easily point to Star Trek, where holodecks are as close to a Metaverse as anyone I think has come to
Unknown:portraying them. And Star Trek, totally utopian that dystopian. And so you know, he's, he's wrong
Unknown:on that point. There's where you gonna jump in? Yeah. Well, there's a piece that I wanted to bring
Unknown:up where Tim, he talked, it's talking about advertising. And basically, the premise is
Unknown:essentially like, is the metaverse just going to become advertising thrown at you in your face? And
Unknown:really just like an immersive ad, essentially. And there's a quote from Tim Sweeney, so I'm curious
Unknown:to kind of get if we can find it. It's somewhere in the article. I mean, my response to that is
Unknown:where where do people go today where it's not being thrown in your face, right? Like, is the
Unknown:reality.
Unknown:It says, in September 2021, Washington Post's interview Tim Sweeney, imagine the future of
Unknown:advertising says a carmaker who wants to make a presence in the metaverse isn't going to run ads.
Unknown:They're going to drop their car into the world in real time, and you'll be able to drive it around.
Unknown:And they're going to work with lots of content creators with different experiences to ensure
Unknown:their cars playable here and there, and then receiving the attention it deserves. And I think
Unknown:Tim's totally right there. Right? I think that's a fantastic point of how the metaverse is
Unknown:fundamentally better than the internet or the next evolution of it. And, and the kinds of experiences
Unknown:that can drive for users, for advertisers for everybody is really compelling. I don't know if he
Unknown:had thoughts on that. No, that's that's, that's fair. I you know, I just think, I think his points
Unknown:around advertising are interesting ones and ones we've kind of talked about a little bit on prior
Unknown:episodes where it's like, having brands come into the metaverse does it kind of just become this
Unknown:dystopian shopping mall where you just have brands shoving virtual things in your face. Now, as I'm
Unknown:saying that I realized you could basically describe the internet or social media as that, to
Unknown:some extent, very much so. But it's just something that I think we'll probably continue to talk
Unknown:about. But the last kind of interesting quote that I pulled up when I was reading, it really actually
Unknown:does a lot with what we were just saying, and I want to hear your thoughts on it. He goes, so much
Unknown:development on the metaverse is focusing on recreating worse versions of things we already
Unknown:have in the real world. And I can't help but think about the virtual wedding as is that just a worse
Unknown:version of the real better? It's way better, you could get wasted in a virtual wedding. And it has
Unknown:no impact on the next day, right? You know, to your point, you can do the wedding in space where
Unknown:how can you do that in the real world like untethered from your, your, your meat body, right,
Unknown:your limbs and your what you can do in a Metaverse the risks you can take the things you can like
Unknown:experience to me, far exceeds what is possible in real life. This is like the next I would argue the
Unknown:next step in human evolution even right, it's the digitization of our of our being, you know rakers
Unknown:we'll call this the singularity where, you know, soul and and digital meat. And I think it's
Unknown:exciting. You know, this author that is totally out to lunch doesn't understand the opportunity
Unknown:here, or why it's exciting. So, on that note, I think that wraps up this episode of the meta
Unknown:business podcast, Jeff, thank you. As always, to our listeners, make sure you guys if you liked the
Unknown:show, send this feedback. Subscribe. It's available everywhere now. Took a bit to get us on,
Unknown:you know, Apple podcast, Google Play Spotify, Stitcher, literally everywhere you get your
Unknown:podcast content, we also put the videos up on YouTube, if you prefer to watch. So make sure you
Unknown:check it out everywhere. We really would appreciate any feedback and tell your friends
Unknown:about the show. If you're in working in or around the metaverse or gaming or crypto.
Unknown:We really, really would love your feedback. And on that note, Jeff, thank you. We will see all of you
Unknown:guys next week. Thank you all. Thanks for watching this episode of meta business. Make sure to
Unknown:subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcast, Spotify, Google Play, YouTube or wherever you get
Unknown:your podcasts. Also make sure to leave a review if you love the content. This is a meta TV series The
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